Author Topic: OK time for me to get on my soap box about the dreaded perking debate lol  (Read 347 times)

Offline Obear

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Perking aircraft!!

hmm huge difference of opinion on this one, some want all or most of the planes perked, others don't want perking at all.

Personaly, i think that perking is NOT a bad thing, if it is done correctly and a good balance is achieved. The perking of the tempest and other new aircraft seems to work well, these super planes are now handled more carefully and are fairly sparse enough to stop the whole arena becoming full of temps, etc., and this in turn adds a little diversity to the whole game.

However, if half of the available aircraft were to be perked it could have the following effect

Firstly, AH having the huge learning curve it has to newbies, would have one more reason for new bloody and revenue to turn away and give up if, as well as having to put some serious effort into actually getting good enough to urn perk points, half the planes was unavailable to fly.

Money IS EVERYTHING to this flight sim, without it updates and services would suffer and as a result, allot of existing members may well take there 30 bucks else where.

Had AH made half the aircraft's perked whilst i was trying to give this sim some serious effort, i wouldn't have even bothered, this is not a threat, i don't make threats but the likes of the LANC and the TIFFY is what made me try and try. I don't want to spend 30 bucks a month and not to be able to have as much accessibility as some ACE who has 1000 perk points sitting in his account.
Remember that not everyone can assign a lot of time online but there 30 bucks is as good as anyone's else's.

The much anticipated W.W.II online is nearly here and although AH and WWIIonline are NOT the SAME type of game, if AH closes its accessibility to new pilots and the money they bring, it could well be cutting its own throat to appease the ELITE who wish to have that little EDGE over there counterparts.

AH is a purely DOGFIGHTING sim, WWIIonline is a WWII sim, therefore if a newbie in WWIIonline has trouble with staying alive in the air, he can still get allot out of the game by becoming a troop or a supply truck driver or a ship/sub navigator and these areas will be huge part of the game and whilst he is using these vehicles he can still brush up on his flying skills. In AH you can't justifi just using the tanks for your 30 bucks because the game is not geared up to land vehicles and therefore the quality and depth you get from using these solely in AH is limited (although fun for a bit)

Sometimes you just cant help but have a bad day, getting shot up 80% of the time, we have all at some time had days like this but it doesn't matter, just hope in and try again.
If your aircraft is perked you could quite easily loose 100 perk points in one sitting and now you cant fly half the aircraft you want to.

Field defending would suffer because if there is just 2 or 3 cons circling a field who is going to try and risk loosing perk points taking off and maybe getting vulched? no one, everyone will be using adjacent fields and thus leaving the one under attack unguarded. You wont even have to worrie about knocking out FH anymore because not many people will be taking off from there.

Sometimes the arena is quiet and you have to look for some action, this will be even worse if most of the fighters online are at 25k and only want to play 'SWOOP DOWN FIRE AND RUN' because of the risk to their points.
Furballing and large mass dogfighting will be a less common scene and gone will be a large part of the Enjoyment that is AH.

Question, how many tempest or other perked aircraft do you see online? not many at all, this is a reflection of what perking dose, great for the odd few real super planes to add a little variaty now and again but not for mass perking

As time goes by and more online sims come out offering more and more depth of gameplay AH need to hold is head up with the rest if it wants to continue and that means accessibility and tempting newcomers.

I think AH is a great example of an online fighter sim and have no intention of moving on. I would hate to see it loose its appeal or ability to draw in newcomers just to please the good pilots who wish to have a more testing environment.

As for fairness, i am a newbie fo only a couple of months and i know that the La7 and others are fast and have tight turning circles and may seem to be super planes, but i still have managed to out turn them and knock all of them out of the sky in my   heavey cumbersome tiffy or even a TBM!!!

Its all down to who is the better pilot, who has the alt and speed advantage, the abilities of the plane and a little luck.

You can out gun ANYTHING with ANYTHING and to go perk crazy just because you have just been killed 10 times consecutively by a la7 or tiffy is kinda crazy.

let the pilots skill and luck be the decider of victory, not who has the biggest perk account.

AH for the masses, AH for EVERYONE and lets keep our skies FILLED with OLDIES and NEWBIES alike  

Peace all  

[This message has been edited by Obear (edited 05-02-2001).]

Offline hazed-

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gonna post an idea about how maybe we can solve this problem..

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Hazed
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Offline Jekyll

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IMO HTC forced the perk system on itself in the early days of AH.

It was then, it seems, that AH was positioned as a 'late-war uber bird' flight game.

Kinda hard to go back to early war aircraft when the skies are full of P51Ds, F4U-1Cs and 109G10s.  After all, why fly a Spitfire 1 if the Spitfire IX, or XIV is available?  And why fly the Spitfire 1 if your opponent is likely to be a 109G10 or Fw190D9?

The ONLY goal in AH seems to be 'kill or be killed' - live or die.  Naturally, most will gravitate to the aircraft which they see gives them the greatest chance to live - the aircraft with the fastest turn of speed, best armour, and biggest guns.

That's NOT early war aircraft.

Having forced themselves into the late war market (probably in order to try to drag market share from WB and the potential WW2OL), HTC find themselves trapped in their own design.  If they gotta keep making late war planes, how to regulate the planeset:  how do they 'balance' the arena without resorting to an RPS.

Their answer is the perk system.  But it is a system forced on all of us simply because AH has no other 'goal' than kill or be killed.  That's probably also why we have the icon system we do - why sun glare was so late in introduction into the game, and why it was so pitiful when it was finally introduced.  The game is not weighted towards realistic air combat, with the elements of surprise, the effectiveness of camouflage, the absolute need to maintain sight on your enemy - the game is weighted towards GUNS... and preferably lots of them!

Find some other measure of 'success' rather than k/d ratio and the overwhelming desire to fly the late war monsters may well diminish.

What's the answer?  I've got no frigging idea  

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Jekyll
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Hi there,

I am new in AH and I feel that the perking system is OK. Though it requires careful thinking from HTC (and from us) what planes should be "perked". I don't comment on that.

But what I have noticed in few days in AH is that some ppl doesn't care at all to run Head-On-Attacks spaying bullets all-round. And H2H attacks have mostly ended that both us are shot down. This is against no1 rule of mine: Don't be killed. So, some flyers doesn't care about get killed in MA. What we can do about that (more realism in other words)?

Last night I joked in RW with my wingies that pilots who got killed should lost all their points. That is hard and maybe not so good idea. BUT how about pilot will lost all his current PERK points in the perk-class he was flying/driving at that moment when he got killed? That is zero perk, not only reducing some. This would IMO add some extra feeling in the game.

Offline -tronski-

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I agree with Jekyll
the game is weighted towards GUNS

This is obvious when there is big talk on the bbs about bringing in the H8k Emily. An interesting plane which only useful attributes are being heavily(?) armoured with a large number of defensive turrets.
Unfortunately bigger and faster isn't always better, but I think i'll see P-51H's, and P-47M's darkening the skies before that poor lonely, single Hurricane MkI takes to the skies.

Tronsky
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lazs

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Actually... I agree with jekyl for once but.. I think the solution is to drop the idiotic and clumsy perk system alltogether.   I believe that an arena with early, mid and late war areas would be a far more elegant and fair solution.   More choice, more parity, more new guys less boring.
lazs

Offline Pongo

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Laz
what negative effect have you noticed from the perk system?

Offline RangerBob

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"what negative effect have you noticed from the perk system"

Paying the same price to fly the sim and not being able to fly all of the planes that some other pilot, who might have more time available to accumulate perk points, can choose to fly.

The perk system does not simply reward skilled pilots. It also rewards pilots who fly a lot and can accumulate perk points. It hurts those pilots who don't have a lot of time available to fly. Those same pilots do, however, pay the same price.

That's just one negative effect from my point of view.

Ranger Bob
 

Offline mrfish

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.squelch bbs  

Offline Soda

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My opinion:
  People who flew the C-hog for the fact it was a corsair will move over to the D-Hog.  They will have success in the D-Hog and fly the C-Hog every couple of sorties since the D-Hog will still allow perk points to be built up at a good pace.

  The People who flew the C-Hog for the killing ability alone will fly the N1K, SpitIX, or whatever ungodly killing machine comes along next.  They don't really care that the C-Hog is gone, they just care that they might not be as successful in another ride since they rely on the killing power the C-Hog had.

  People who flew the C-Hog for the ground attack capability, well, here's hoping the new armour modelling in 1.07 is improved.  Until then, better pack a couple of bombs onboard because without all those hispanos you aren't going to get any Panzer kills with .50 cal.  If you want to strafe hangers or other ground targets, try out some 30mm on the 190's, they do the job just fine.

  From the perspective of the newbie, the C-Hog did lend itself to getting "easy" kills through the power of its' guns.  It didn't allow a whole lot of perk points to be gained by HO'ing everything though, like many newbies do.  No loss, they can HO with several other multi-cannon birds and get better perk points (Typhoon for example), it's not like many of them got back to base anyway.  It'll just feel a little more mortal in the Typhoon than it did in the C-Hog.  Besides, there were/are a lot better defensive rides around than the C-Hog if they wanted to try and stay alive.

-Soda

Offline aztec

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I'm a little puzzeled by the point price chosen...is the Tempest 10x more deadly than the Chog?

Offline LePaul

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Quote
Originally posted by Obear:
Perking aircraft!!

I don't want to spend 30 bucks a month and not to be able to have as much accessibility as some ACE who has 1000 perk points sitting in his account.
Remember that not everyone can assign a lot of time online but there 30 bucks is as good as anyone's else's.


This is precisely what I, and I think to an extent Laz, have been trying to say.

I'm not flying a lot lately, and I enjoy the Arado.  Doesn't do a lotta damage, takes forever to get to alt, and seems to be like a U2 in terms of gliding it down to land.  Its one of the planes I like but since its perked, its harder for me to gather points to get into.

I posted a suggestion a week or so ago that each new user have xx amount of perk points, so they can experience all the aircraft.  That received very few replies, but some...and most agreed that the newbies needed to fly the perked stuff asides the confines of the H2H rooms and training room.  While those areas let you use them, the idea is to see them in action, in the **Main Arena**.  This is where the war is, not the Training Room!

So without blabbing the whole song and dance [again], i think limiting the customers access to aircraft is a bad idea.  The perk system has good intentions, but comes off insulting to those that do not log a lot of time in Aces High and can not acrue the *required* points to fly these.  

Tell me, if you were a newbie [ all over again ] and interested in the game due to the Ta152, Tempest or Arado aircraft, how would you feel to pay $30 a month and still not have access to them?  Would you suck it in and earn the points to fly them, or speak with your wallet and log out?  Just curious...  



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Paul J. Busiere

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BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

Offline hitech

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LePaul You pay $30 to play AH not to fly your plane of choice.

Quite frankly your argument is a totaly invalid one. The exact same argument could be made on lots of aspects of the game. As in all terrains should be available all the time.
I pay my $30 why can't I control the CV. I pay my $30 why should I have as many points in the game. I paid my $30 why should a better pilot be able to kill more planes than me. In every senario we would have to enable every plane.

Under your argument the most popular online games (RPG'S) would be none exist because you wouldn't have to play the game to get all the goodies of the game.


HiTech

Offline LePaul

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Quote
Originally posted by hitech:
LePaul You pay $30 to play AH not to fly your plane of choice.

Quite frankly your argument is a totaly invalid one. The exact same argument could be made on lots of aspects of the game. As in all terrains should be available all the time.
I pay my $30 why can't I control the CV. I pay my $30 why should I have as many points in the game. I paid my $30 why should a better pilot be able to kill more planes than me. In every senario we would have to enable every plane.

Under your argument the most popular online games (RPG'S) would be none exist because you wouldn't have to play the game to get all the goodies of the game.


HiTech

Ooooof, flamed by the boss.  That's a new honor hehe

Seriously, you bring up some valid points.  So, how about the newbies having a few perkies to fly all the planes?  At least give them a taste of how the perked birds perform in the big room?



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Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
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BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)