Author Topic: Stuka we have DID have siren......  (Read 2941 times)

Offline boxboy28

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2002, 03:26:05 PM »
I want the damn siren and the BFG's  (Big Fuggin Guns)

think of all the tank killing you could do in that thing!


Box
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Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2002, 04:04:23 PM »
Well, what I have is inconclusive. I have books with pictures of obviously D model Ju87s, still having dive flaps and bomb carrying (centerline and wing mounted), with no dive siren.... they are listed as Ju87D-3s, each picture is of them operating on the Eastern Front.

But then there's 2 dif drawings of Ju87D-3s by Watanabe, one has a dive siren... one doesn't.
-SW

Offline Wmaker

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2002, 06:09:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
Hazed the d5 had the dive flaps removed so why have a siren? I think your source maybe bogus is it shows the d5 with a siren.


Probably around half of the production D-5s indeed did have the dive breaks.

Here's one of them:

This is one of the Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey's Ju-87D-5s you can easily see both 20mm cannons and dive breaks there.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 06:17:26 PM by Wmaker »
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Offline Wotan

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2002, 07:33:00 PM »


This is deffinately a pic of a d5 and it has dive flaps still there.

Captioned


Quote
Of Ju-87 D-5 in camouflage of winter on takeoff. Although it is this version which lost the air-brakes, the two specimens of the photograph are still equipped with it.


Quote
The Dora began deliveries in January 1942 to units on the Eastern Front. This had an up-rated 1400 hp engine and an increased bombload of nearly 4000 lbs (1800 kg) for short-range missions. Protection for the air crew increased with additional armor and replacement of the rear armament and its mount with an armored GSL-K 81Z turret mounting a twin-barreled MG 81Z 7.92mm machine-gun. The fuel system was similar to that of the R model with wing tanks that increased normal range to 510 miles (822 km). Underwing drop tanks extended the Dora's maximum range to 954 miles (1538 km).

Much effort was devoted to streamlining the Dora, one example being the repositioning of the Berta's massive chin radiator to positions underneath the wings and the oil cooler mounted in its place, but maximum speed only increased to 255 mph (410 kph) As part of this effort the landing gear redesigned to handle the increased weight in a trimmer installation which proved to be rather less sturdy than the Berta's.

The D-2 sub model was designed as a dedicated glider tug with a strengthened rear fuselage although almost any Ju 87 could be fitted with the appropriate hardware.

The D-3 featured more armor, protecting the engine, radiators, and fuselage belly as the Stuka was being used more in the the low-level attack role. The dive sirens which so discomfited Allied troops in the early years of the war were removed because they had lost their effectiveness.

Some D-1s and D-3s were modified as D-4s to carry a torpedo, but the torpedo attack role was better filled by the faster He 111H and Ju 88A bombers which could also carry more torpedoes. All D-4s were reconverted back to D-1 and D-3 standard without ever flying an operational sortie.

The D-5 sub model began to delete the dive brakes as unnecessary since they weren't used much. By mid-'43 when the D-5 was introduced the Stukas were more often used in the close-support role than as dive-bombers. Presumably this was due to the loss of total air superiority by the Luftwaffe so that the Stukas couldn't climb to the altitudes needed to dive-bomb properly without fighter escort, but ground-level attack missions could go on regardless. The D-5 also replaced its wing-mounted 7.92mm machine guns with 20mm cannon, had extended wings to reduce the wing loading and re-introduced the jettisonable undercarriage of the Clara to make belly landings safer.

As the aerial environment became less hospitable for the Doras they were transferred to night ground-attack units (Nachtschlachtgruppen) where their disadvantages were less apparent. The D-7s and D-8s flown by these units were modified from D-3s and D-5s respectively by the substitution of a 1500 hp engine and the addition of flame dampening tubes for the engine exhaust. These aircraft usually operated in flare-dropper/attack teams or under ground-based radio control, the latter referred to as the Egon procedure. The former method required one aircraft to drop flares to illuminate or silhouette the target so it could be attacked by the other aircraft. This was very similar to the method adopted by the British Fleet Air Arm for its night torpedo and bombing strikes, Taranto being the best-known example.

However some Stukas still flew by day as their special abilities required. These Gustav models were specialized tank killers, nicknamed the Panzerknacker (tank cracker) or Kanonenvogel (cannon bird). G-1s were minimal conversions from D-3s while G-2s were rebuilt D-5s that were much cleaner aerodynamically than the G-1. A pair of underwing Flak 18 37mm flak guns were mounted with 12 rounds per gun, the normal wing armament generally being deleted to save weight. The 37mm guns proved capable of destroying all but the heaviest Soviet tanks with their tungsten-cored shells. The Panzerknackers were extremely vulnerable to enemy fighters, but they flew on regardless until the end of the war.


This d5 (Werknummer 494083) has no dive flaps.



If ya really want to prove d3s had a dive siren then heres some books for yas.


Stuka/Die Geschichte Der Ju-87
ISBN : 3 87943 2910        Smith Pc

Junkers Ju87 Stuka
ISBN : 1 86126 1772        Smith Peter C

Luftwaffe At War : Stuka Spearhead
ISBN : 1 85367 3293        Smith P

Junker JU87 Stuka
ISBN : 1 84037 1986        Griehl, Manfred

Luftwaffe at War 9: Stukas Over the Steppe 1941-1945
ISBN : 1 85367 3552        Smith Peter C

Stukas over the Mediterranean 1940-45 Luftwaffe at War 11
ISBN : 1 85367 3765        Smith Peter

Junkers Ju 87 Stuka
ISBN : 0 88740 4774        Elfrath

Junkers Ju 87 Story
ISBN : X 909 00019X        Mbi

Junkers Ju 87 Stuka Vol 2
ISBN : 0 7643 0092X        Zobel F

(Oca.1) Junkers Ju87 Stuka 1937-41.
ISBN : 1 85532 6361        Weal J

Stukas ! Les Avions Allemands D'attaque
ISBN : 2 8404 81006        Leonard H

Stuka Dive Bomber*Pursuit-Bomber*Pilots.
ISBN : 0 88740 216X        Aders/Held


Uwaga Stukas Pt.1
ISBN : 83 911393 1X        Michulec R

Offline daflea

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2002, 09:53:34 PM »
I have a book "Hitler's Luftwaffe" with the same picture (what is called a D-5 in winter war paint) and it is identified as a Ju 87D-8 being operated by Stukageschwader 77 during the winter of 1943-44 with dive barkes. One of the reason for these seemly  errors in modle identification is because of the "Reparturbetrieb" or rebuild centers , the Minerva Works in Mortsel Belgium did complete rebuild of both Ju 87s and Me 109s, Junkers set up a center for their aircraft repair/rebuild at Courcelles Belgium. The Rivierenhof plant was producing a completly rebuilt Me 109 every hour 24 hours a day. The version of aircraft they produced were more up-graded than what was coming off the production lines as the latest equipment mods were applied, this made it possable for a rebuilt Ju 87-D3 to come off the production line with a rebuilt D-8 wings.

Offline Dowding (Work)

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2002, 03:41:16 AM »
So there were some D-3s fitted with sirens? I should think it could be made an option in the hangar?

BTW, does anyone else think the Stuka is the evilest looking plane to grace the skies of WW2? It's like the aviation embodiment of Nazism. ;)

Offline GScholz

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2002, 03:54:44 AM »
I too have the "Hitler's Luftwaffe" book, and it's not always accurate. Used it as reference in a Ta-152 discussion some time ago, and got stomped on so hard by the 152 lovers here that I'm still trying to recover (;)). Don't trust it.
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Offline whgates3

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2002, 03:55:15 AM »
the original design had the landing gear goose-stepping across the sky...jew-seeking bomb never worked out either...

Offline hyena426

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2002, 05:26:23 AM »
Quote
BTW, does anyone else think the Stuka is the evilest looking plane to grace the skies of WW2
funny you say that,,because if you read about the goofy guy you invented the stuka,,he said he sold his soul to the devil for the stuka design<~~the guy was a really out there i guess,,or was he?,,hehehehe

Offline Tilt

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2002, 05:42:50 AM »
No Spats...............but with a siren.............seems familiar but no nose sig



here with spats (with the number 2)......same fuselage code and nose art as ours........could this be "our AH stuka"? Its got a siren..




« Last Edit: December 18, 2002, 06:04:51 AM by Tilt »
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Offline Tilt

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2002, 05:48:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
We dont need no stinkin siren

this is all we need



Agreed.............with ap rounds...........
Ludere Vincere

Offline daflea

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2002, 06:11:45 AM »
I'm sorry but.....I want sound effects, if I fly something ugly I want it to sound ugly!

Offline GScholz

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2002, 06:55:37 AM »
Could this be a job for Mitsu? The "high speed" sound with the wind blowing ... don't you hear that sound when diving? Couldn't someone just mix in som siren noise with that?
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Offline Dowding (Work)

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2002, 08:21:20 AM »
lol whgates

You've got to admit the Stuka is synonimous with the Germans in WW2. It's a flying jack-boot.

GScholz - maybe that's the answer? Just sub the wind sound for any siren noise, for the stuka. I'm gonna try it tonight.

Shame people on the ground won't hear it.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Stuka we have DID have siren......
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2002, 08:44:50 AM »
"It's a flying jack-boot."

I knew there was a reason I was sad upon hearing of your imminent departure, glad you stayed - you little commie toejam! :D