How high

[Ice]

You're right Leph...it works well. We try to come in above the furball with at least 250IAS, preferably 300IAS.

I use the technique you described when I'm 1v1...gives ya some options eh?  

I want to thank you guys for the compliments...the guys in the 13th have worked hard to get better fighting together and in general flying smarter. If you haven't tried this as a group, it is harder to do consistently than you might think...we still have alot of work to do on other skills.

Many of you are dangerous pilots...very skilled in areas that personally I'm weak in. I wish I could fly my 51 like Hang or manuever like Nath...RA still has the best displacement rolls I've seen in 10 years of doing this.

I guess what's most important is that we are all having fun...really doesn't matter what your style is as long as your grinnin while your flyin   For me personally, as long as I'm killin more folks than are killin me I'm happy...never have enjoyed my handle, tagged as killed, in someone elses buffer...prolly a pride thing  

Most importantly though...we all like each other in the 13th...we are friends and enjoy flyin together...without that, I would be lonewolfin again like back in WB's.

Cyas Up!<S>

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Ice
13thTAS

It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!

[This message has been edited by Ice (edited 03-22-2001).]

[lazs]

i have no problem with your alt.  In some arenas it is great because then we never see each other.   I like "layered' fights anyway.  If I come up from a field that has 4-6 p51's over it and try to climb up to engage it's my own fault.   Every time I have engaged a group of 13th guys by myself or with some scattered low greens...I knew it was dumb but due to circumstance or boredom i did it anyway.

I will add that I don't have the patience to fly effectively against P51's that are teamed up.  I have no objection to 13th team tactics its just that I don't want to play.   still... it is easy enough for me to just go somewhere else rather than participate.

I am glad that everyone doesn't fly that way since it is not a style I enjoy using or flying against.   I feel with the addition of even more late war fast, poor turning planes... we are losing some balance tho.  Good for 13th... bad for some of the rest of us.
lazs

[Westy]

 As much as I like to kid around with the 13TAS guys I have to say what you do, you do well - very very well. Never mind those who complain about your tactics or methods. They're sore losers. You folks aren't doing anything wrong at all. Well, except for RWY and Thunder who had the dubious honor of helping me break my "No-13TAS-kills" streak last weekend. In one flight and less than 3 minutes apart too    Well done guys  

 <S> to the 13TAS. Nothing less than full respect from me.

 -Westy

(goes back to recruiting and training with the anti-13TAS high altitude mercenary force)

[Soulyss]

It's kinda funny, since lately I've found myself on the other side with an arena full of D9's and La7's and other rides that for all intents and purposes just as fast as my pony and suddenly finding myself not able to run down anything and everything that comes my way.  Just the other day I got bounced by a high D9 and he just ran for it after 1 pass and I stopped and yelled at the screen "G*d Damnit turn around a fight!" a second later I realized what I just said and decided it was time to rtb and go curl up in bed with a good book for a while.  

[StSanta]

Boss, I've been engaged together with Kirin with the 13Th TAS more than a few times  .

Each and every time, they've extended once the altitude difference was equalized, unless they had superiority of numbers.

It's smart flying. Didn't mean to make that comment sound like a derogatory one.

I'll extend if I'm in a B&Z plane and outnumbered with no help coming.

Of course, it's hard to extend in an A5 if ya ain't got a few k's of alt.

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"You filthy piece of distended rectum! DIE allierte schweinhund!"

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by lazs:
i have no problem with your alt.  In some arenas it is great because then we never see each other.   I like "layered' fights anyway.  If I come up from a field that has 4-6 p51's over it and try to climb up to engage it's my own fault.   Every time I have engaged a group of 13th guys by myself or with some scattered low greens...I knew it was dumb but due to circumstance or boredom i did it anyway.

I will add that I don't have the patience to fly effectively against P51's that are teamed up.  I have no objection to 13th team tactics its just that I don't want to play.   still... it is easy enough for me to just go somewhere else rather than participate.

I am glad that everyone doesn't fly that way since it is not a style I enjoy using or flying against.   I feel with the addition of even more late war fast, poor turning planes... we are losing some balance tho.  Good for 13th... bad for some of the rest of us.
lazs

Lazs, giving the style of fighting you like, I would think you would be a a6m, spit, or N1K driver Get out of that F4!

G,D,R

[AKSeaWulfe]

A few tours back I went up against the 13th TAS in a low level fight around an airfield they were taking off from. I was in a 109F4 and a guy was there to help me out. I think I got 3 or 4 of 'em in an engagement off the coast, but I'll be damned if there wasn't one in front of me.. there was two behind me. They ran me outta fuel and I ditched as I extended away and some high squad mates came in and kept them occupied.

It was one of the funnest times I'd ever had, so I can't say that the 13TAS doesn't know how to get down low and mix it up. Sometimes I grab alt, especially if I know I'm going to encounter the 13th... some of those guys just scare me into the ground without firing a shot.
-SW
ps: you guys still need to get bigger canopies for those heads of yours. :-P (joke)

[mrfish]

what does that say about me then? i am usually looking down at you guys from the 109-o-sphere  

it's all about plane choice - why bother to take a spit or n1k up to 25k when they are great turners and stall fighters ? - try that in a p51 like the 13th flies or a 109! doesn't work - you have to fly appropriately for the airplane - that said you are still nancies lol  

[lazs]

ammo... yeah.. it would seem that the Hog isn't the greatest furballer but... if you look, it is the plane that more than any other fast plane, will engage or fight.  I think that is because it has good roll and fair low speed turn.  It has a great site for deflection shooting and it can take a few hits.   You can fly it as a high speed e fighter like the 51 but the rear vision is not that great and it will get run down too easily.   I think it is a mediocre plane performance wise in the current arena but it is more versitile than the one trick "pony" and therfore more fun.

I've been flying a lag7 some and find that all I do now is chase planes.  The whole arena is hide and seek.  In the Hog at least people will attack ya.  Being below a couple or more 51's that work as a team and never allow their speed to drop while u are in a hog is not much fun tho and I would prefer to avoid it.   I understand the how and why of such "tactics", I just don't enjoy being on either end of em.   We need to seperate the very fast late war planes from the rest so that all styles of fighting get a chance.
lazs

[Voss]

Cut and paste would save you a LOT of time, lazs.

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Voss
13th TAS

[Reschke]

 

In closing, to those who feel we don't fight the way you think we should, well, PISS ON YA!  (Image removed from quote.)

Enough said!
[/B]

I can honestly say this.  I see you guys with altitude and E advantage on me and I will run screaming "oh crap, oh crap!"  Then when I get to an equal footing I will head back in and get my kills.

Looking forward to seeing the 13th.  Fly your fight and piss on all the others who squeak about it.

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ObstLt. Reschke
2/LJK Staffelkapitan
Kommandeur Jagdbomber
LuftJagerKorps

[Thunder]

Always enter the fight with the advantage.

 

"Always above, seldom on the same level, never underneath.!"

Major Edward "Mick" Mannock, RAF

Know your aircraft and what it does best!

 

"Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass!"

Lt Dave "Preacher" Pace USN

Use teamwork and a co ordinated attack!

 

"The important thing in [tactics]is to suppress the enemhy's useful actions but allow hes useless actions. However, doing this alone is defensive"

Miyamoto Musashi

Fly together so much you know what each other with do instinctively!

 

"You fight like you train."

Moto, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School (TOPGUN)

   




[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 03-24-2001).]

[StSanta]

Well, in JG 54 there was a pilot who said

"If you got home from a mission with a kill, but missing your wingman, your mission was a failure".

Hard to help your wingie when ya got one enemy on yer six, but ya gotta try  .

There are times when one arrives at the scene of a fight only to see a friendly engaged much lower with plenty of cons higher than him, and if you help him you know that you'll both be at a disadvantage. If you don't, he dies.

What to do? IN IN IN!   Use the extra speed to at least drag the high enemies down and towards more friendly territory.

Also in MA, when those hi inb cons come in, they usually do not operate in pairs, in which case a rotte has a good chance of suckering them in and getting shots at them.

Rottes or schwarms are much harder to deal with from a disadvantage.

All depends on the circumstances.



------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"You filthy piece of distended rectum! DIE allierte schweinhund!"