Author Topic: Tigers being killed by manned ack. (Read 934 times)

Urchin · « **on:** December 18, 2002, 03:30:46 PM »

Tiger armor:

Front Turret: 100/8
Front Upper Hull: 100/10
Front Lower Hull: 100/24
Side Turret: 80/0
Side Upper Hull: 80/0
Side Lower Hull: 80/8
Rear Turret: 80/0
Rear Hull: 80/8
Turret Top / Bottom: 25/81-90
Upper Hull Top / Bottom: 25/90
Lower Hull Top / Bottom: 25/90
Gun Mantlet: 100-110/0

37mm Manned ack Armor Penetration(?):
3.7cm FlaK 43 L/89
ammo PzGr18
ammo wieght lbs 1.4
Velocity 2,526'/s
100 meters 35mm penetration
500 meters 28mm
1000 meters 21mm
1500 meters 17mm

If the 37mm manned ack is the same gun as the Ostwinds.... it shouldn't be able to penetrate the Tigers armor at all, much less kill it. At any range and angle, much less from 1,500 yards (which is where I was killed from, give or take a couple hundred yards).

Apparently the Tiger is flawed in some manner, please fix it.

brady · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2002, 04:58:40 PM »

Those pentration figiures are for a slope of aprox.30 plus degrease, which means aganst the flat plate of the tiger at close range you may indead be able to acheave a pentration( side or rear), why do you thhink HTC neautered the osty.

MrLars · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2002, 05:35:50 PM »

Also, it could be that the field acks still have a mixture of HE and AP rounds. HT could have left it like that so the field guns can act as anti-tank artillery, something that is sorely needed at airfields that you can spawn GV's to for an attack.

Leave it as it is IMO.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2002, 05:43:46 PM »

If a 37mm is killing a Tiger at anywhere near 1000 yards something is very wrong. For example the 75mm on a Sherman couldn't penetrate any Tiger armor until under 500yards, performance was only 66mm at 500 yards IRRC and Tiger had 80-110mm all around... Again there can be no excuse if a 37mm takes out a tiger at even close to 1000 yards, if it was really that far..

TheCage · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2002, 06:28:14 PM »

Hmmmm that is interesting.....I put over 1000 rounds into a Tiger last night to no effect in a manable ack. Only ended up getting blown off the field when he finally realized where the fire was coming from.

Jimdandy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2002, 06:56:01 PM »

Just put manned 88's at all the fields with ap/he/aa like on the ships. Give the 37's the same choice. We know the 88's should do a number on the Tiger. The 37's might immobilize or damage it w/ap rounds but I don't think kill it at even point blank range IMO.

Urchin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2002, 07:00:28 PM »

If I understand the way sloping works correctly, that would mean against flat plate the penetration would be as follows:

100 meters = 35mm * 1.66 = 58.1 mm

500 meters = 28mm * 1.66 = 46.48 mm

1000 meters = 21mm * 1.66 = 34.86 mm

1500 meters = 17mm * 1.66 = 28.22 mm

I'm not sure if I did that right, but I know I've heard that an angle of 45 degrees halves penetration, so it would make sense to me that 30 degrees is 2/3rds of 45 degrees, so going from 30 degrees to 0 degrees would add about 66% to the penetration.

Still isn't enough to get through the armor anywhere on the Tiger, unless the Tiger is laying on its side or something equally absurd.

hyena426 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2002, 07:57:00 PM »

wow,,i never drove one into a base yet too see if it would kill a tiger,,,but it shouldnt!!,,a manned 88mm cannon will be needed for tank killers in bases,,or a old french 75mm atleast<~~great gun:)

bj229r · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2002, 10:58:28 PM »

LOL I drove up toward 44..lost turret as some gv's came from far spawn...decided to drive tiger back to friendly area..(LONG ride)..THEN 44 upped..and i wasnt even past that spawn point yet
kept takin hit after hit after hit..engine kept goin..M8 caught up..empied his WHOLE ammo load into me from mebbe 50 feet..STILL i drive..M16 drove THRU me...shot him up w hull gun..after he passed...took a half dozen more hits from panzers..FINALLY someone kilt my engine after mebbe 10 minutes of gettin pinged..Tigers RULE

hyena426 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2002, 11:24:49 PM »

thats good,,it will give a reason for people to drive tank buster planes more:D

Urchin · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2002, 12:10:36 AM »

Yea, I guess that 37mm manned ack must be 2,000 times better than whatever the poor M-8 is equipped with. Dropped 50 rounds of 37mm into a Tiger from 5 yards dead astern. Every round hit, no damage at all. Eventually got an assist when he got tired and .efluffied.

Ecliptik · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2002, 01:55:15 AM »

The M-8 has a 75 mm howitzer. It's a stubby barrel and the shell has terrible muzzle velocity. It's probably better off as a mobile artillery piece firing HE or shrapnel as opposed to posing as a tank killer.

brady · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2002, 02:48:25 AM »

Tony, was sighting better penatration figures for the 37mm, or therioising at anyrate. Again this at close range, and aganst the rear or sides. Just because a shell is not big does not mean it is capable of acheaving penatration, look at the figures for the 2.8cm taper Boar AT gun realative to it's boar size for example.

Bellow are the armor figures for the Tiger E, as you can see their is a weak spot that the Field gun could exploit under"optimal" conditations, now this is obviously streaching it a bit and it asumes a few things, like the 37mm field gun is infact the most deadly Varient the Germans produced, the Tiger is parked right next to it and exposing the weak spot and that AH factors things in like Citical hits, all in all a prety far strech.

Hull Front, Upper 102@20°, 100@10°
Hull Front, Lower 62@60°, 100@24°
Hull Sides, Upper 82, 80@0°

Hull Sides, Lower 62, 60@0°

Hull Rear 82@20°, 80@8°
Hull Top 25@90°
Hull Bottom 25@90°
Turret Front 100@0°-11°, 100@8°
mantlet: 100-110@0°
Turret Sides 82, 80@0°
Turret Rear 82, 80@0°
Turret Top 26, 25@81°-90°

Urchin · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2002, 12:54:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ecliptik
The M-8 has a 75 mm howitzer. It's a stubby barrel and the shell has terrible muzzle velocity. It's probably better off as a mobile artillery piece firing HE or shrapnel as opposed to posing as a tank killer.

Nooo.... the M-8 has a 37mm CANNON.

The LVT-4 has a 100mm low velocity howitzer, perhaps that is the vehicle you are thinking of.

daflea · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2002, 02:04:15 PM »

What we have here is a little confusion..I think!
M8 US light armored car=37mm main gun
M8 US (HMC) Howitzer Motor Carriage=75mm Howitzer
The LVT(A)-4 was armed with the same 75mm gun which fires the same round as the US 75mm pack howitzer and M8 HMC, the 75mm pack how. cartdrige can all so be fired from a the 75mm gun in the M4 Sherman in a pinch. The M24 light tank used the same shell/cartdrige in its light weight T13E1 75mm gun, this gun by the way was developed for use in the B-25 H bomber.