Author Topic: Tigers being killed by manned ack. (Read 936 times)

wulfie · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2002, 10:00:48 PM »

M8 AC has 37L53 MA.

Ostwind 3.7cm FlaK 43 wasn't 'neutered', it just doesn't carry anything but HE at present.

FlaK weapons didn't carry alot of PzGr (or any type of AP based round) in general. A few for self defense mainly. FlaKPz carried even fewer because less need - a mobile AA weapon that only operates alongside Pz. units. Not much chance of being caught as the 'only target' of an enemy MBT.

Once crew casualties are modeled, you'll probably see a 10% AP loadout option back on the Ostwind. But they were being used 1000 times more aggressively in the MA than they ever were in real life.

What's really needed is a 'jeep', a Kubelwagen, an Opel 6700, a GMC 2 1/2 ton truck, and 3 or 4 towed weapons (2 of them being AA weapons) and turn the Ostwind into a 50+ perk AFV (it's far more rare than the Pz VIE ever was).

Mike/wulfie

wulfie · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2002, 10:11:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
I'm not sure if I did that right, but I know I've heard that an angle of 45 degrees halves penetration...

Actually - it sounds minor but it's not when computing different types of attacks vs. armor plate - 45 degree effective angle of impact doubles effective thickness of armor being impacted.

This means that shots coming from further than 500 meters (maybe further than 800 meters if coming from something like an 75L70, etc.) are automatically going to impact with a few degrees of impact angle added in.

Then you add in elevation difference between firer and target, etc.

The 'double thickness' vs. 'half penetration' mainly applies to big HE attacks vs. well sloped but less thick FH armor plate (Soviet 152 and 122 HE vs. Pz V is a good example of this).

Mike/wulfie

brady · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2002, 05:31:47 AM »

Well imo it was Neuatered, granted irl it was not used as agresively as it is in the MA but then again the MA aint RL, perhaps an answer to this would be alowing 10% AP to be carried and used by means of selecting it.

Ecliptik · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2002, 02:59:42 AM »

Quote

The LVT-4 has a 100mm low velocity howitzer, perhaps that is the vehicle you are thinking of.

Oops!

Mitsu · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2002, 03:15:02 AM »

I could kill Tiger I in man ack by shooting at his side at 1500 yards range.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #20 on:** December 21, 2002, 05:33:32 AM »

Mitsu if you can then that means either Tiger I is wrong or manned ack is wrong. Send an e-mail to HTC with film and they might fix it if it comes from you..

Mitsu · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2002, 05:47:35 AM »

Roger.

GRUNHERZ, come to bishops field in Tiger I.
I'll wait for you in man ack.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2002, 05:49:12 AM »

LOL, I dont use perk vehicles. Plus its much more fun shooting the tail off your Niki...

Mitsu · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2002, 05:55:28 AM »

I only fly C202.

GPreddy · « **Reply #24 on:** December 21, 2002, 05:59:45 AM »

I was hiding behind a hillside in my tiger and shooting vehicles as they passed into our base. After about the fifteenth kill they got wise to me. Did they come back with tigers to kill me? No they brought ostwinds and they climbed the hill beside me. I heard them coming and tried to back up a bit to raise my gun but the tiger runs in reverse slower then my dead grandmother rolls over. So I end up with three flaks firing at me from less then one hundred yards. I lived about as long as it takes to say oh well. I did not think a flak could hurt a tiger but now I am hearing that even an m16 has killed a tiger.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2002, 06:40:26 AM »

Killing a Tiger with Ostwind now makes about as much sense as killing one with handgranades... HTC just cant understand this thick steel armor stuff right can they?

bj229r · « **Reply #26 on:** December 21, 2002, 07:40:35 AM »

just before the patch..I walked up to a panzer with a M16...put ALL 4000 rounds into him point-blank....various angles (started 6...moved around to side...assumed front was poor choice) ..tank wouldnt die--dead in water, of course. Went back..got a M8..kilt him 1 shot. (Apparently he was taking a protracted dump or somethin?)

hazed- · « **Reply #27 on:** December 21, 2002, 01:46:01 PM »

Something tells me HTC dont want to have the tiger be able to ignore base defences.(which is fair enough) but cant we hav a realistic weapon to stop them? a british 6 pounder or something?

They seem to not want to model the tiger as its armour figures suggest unless it is indeed a bug.
Instead of us gettiing the feeling of being impervious to all but either the closest of shots or rear quarter shots in the tiger we now have a tank which has exceedingly slow traverse and can have m16's and ostwinds running rings around it firing until we go POP

.

I really looked forward to the tiger as I have books on it, and some of the stories about its strength are amazing to read.Unfortunately it seems we have again got a problem with the whole armoured damage model.

HTC PLEASE buy some of those books on the tiger and read about how durable they were.They have evidence of tigers being hit loads of times with NO effect. PLEASE can we have this reflected in AH.(i mean ,M16s killing tigers????????? wtf is that all about??

)

NO M16 or ostwind driver would have even contemplated attacking such a tank and theres no way they should be able to do it in AH. Please change things, this is really ruining what i think is one of the best additions to AH so far!

If im atacking a tiger in a panzer I wouldnt expect to kill it until its WELL within 1000 yards.

go to this webpage( http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz3.htm ) and scroll down halfway to the yellow chart on armour penetration of various guns.
A russian(Soviet 76.2mm F-34 L/41.5) tank could kill a tiger if it hit the hull armour ONLY within 500 meters!
A sherman(American 75mm M3 L/37.5) COULD NOT even at 500m!
The German (75mm KwK 40 L/48) could penetrate 'just' at 1000m

so how on earth is a 50 calibre machine gun on a M16 doing it?

Frost · « **Reply #28 on:** December 21, 2002, 02:03:31 PM »

I was in a manned ack today shooting a Tiger. The Tiger was D709 away and not moving. I put ~1000 rounds into him, with hit sprites showing on every one and didn't even get an assist when somone else dropped an egg on him and killed him.