History channel....correct or wrong again?

[GRUNHERZ]

Uhhm whels there was no T26E3 anywhere near Europe in November 1944. They only arrived direct from the USA into Antwerp in February and first saw combat in early March 1945...

[maxtor]

Originally posted by hazed-
unfortunately yesterday I was told that a m16 managed to kill a tiger by constant  shooting at the turret.

Having done a lot of shooting at Tigers, I find this incredible.  All my MG bullets were actually ricochetting (a neat visual effect btw) off the Tiger turret (perhaps even as many as 1/3rd of my AP 37mm) at nearly point blank range.   in this instance I was so close his engine sounded almost as loud as my own, I mean CLOSE range.

I think all the M16 you heard about could have possibly got was a proxy kill or some other wierd scoring thing gave it to him.

I have had Tigers (and m16's too come to think of it) shoot thier own MG at my M8, and I am yet to take damage that way even in a M8.

[wulfie]

daflea, GRUNHERZ:

Have either of you looked at the table?

Compare the penetration values for AP and APBC vs. the hull armor of the Pz VIE. Make note that the penetration data is vs. armor at a slope of 30 degrees. Most of the hull armor on the Pz VIE is sloped at around 10 degrees.

Show me some penetration test data. Scan me some from Leavenworth. I've never seen a single test documented where the hull armor of a Pz VIE could withstand a 76mm AP round at 50 meters.

"If you had been member of the U.S. military or a NATO military and had attended the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, Combat Studies Institute, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas you would be very familiar this data, one of the first things you are given is a paper carton containing 12 pubs, in the military circles these are known as the "Leavenworth Papers"."

I guess the "Leavenworth Papers" don't contain any  penertation test results for U.S. 76mm guns?

Show me a test from anywhere (internet address or scanned document) that backs up what you are saying.

Mike/wulfie

[wulfie]

As for Shermans and D-Day:

The big deal was that there were barely any 76 (as opposed to 75) armed Shermans available on D-Day. Even at the end of WW2 only 50% of all deployed Shermans had the 76mm MA.

Mike/wulfie

[hazed-]

I think theres a fairly good reason to keep the axis tanks as the 'top gun' in AH as tanks are introduced.

By this i mean generally on the battlefields the German tanks were superior in firepower but inferior in numbers.
AH should try to reflect this i feel.Otherwise if we add now the latest 1944-45 allied tank buster we will see the tiger suddenly become nothing special! rather than have it appear as unusually durable/Tough opponent like it was when the allies came up against them, it will seem just like any other tank.


I feel we really need to let the tiger have its time in the limelight.
Shouldnt we first experience the panzer IV vs sherman M4 fights as the norm with the odd perk tiger appearing to strike a bit of dread into the fights?

If we suddenly add the firefly or M10 , fairly rare compared to shermans etc, we will see just the arcade like tiger vs m10 slogging fights.We know these engagements were less common but we would see it constantly in AH.

Id like to see what a sherman is like first and then see how much better the m10 or firefly is LATER.

The t34 for the same reason I think should be added after the sherman so we have the western front simulated before the eastern one as we have less of the eastern front planeset.

If I could choose some tanks these are what i would like and why:

American Sherman M4 .....The main/most common tank for the allies.(OR british version of same tank)
British Matilda tank ........For desert warfare with the panzer IV (very durable! but weak gun)
German armoured car ....to have parity with allies M8 or M3
Russian T.34................... for Eastern front model set
Japanese and British Light tanks from asian theatre or pacific (US light tank chafee?)

If during the addition of these tanks HTC decide to add something rare for the allies like the tank destroyers that can penetrate the tiger Id hope HTC introduce the even more formidable King tiger (with appropriate high perk cost) so the Axis can field another formidable tank but it costs them resourses just like the real ones did.

anyone else agree this would be a good way of doing it?

[daflea]

Sounds great...with M3 or/and M5 U.S. light tanks, Ger Pz III (short 50mm), Brit A-13s, eight wheel Ger armored cars and some arty, towed and SPs. I would love to see an all armore area..well maybe some air support...JU-52 and light recon aircraft (eye in the sky with no guns or bombs)

[Grendel]

Stumbled on some useful information regarding these 75mm cannons.

See http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz3.htm
for comparison between the mentioned 75mm KwK 40 L/48 German cannon versus M4 cannon in Shermans.

About halfway down on the page.

[hazed-]

btw this is the German armoured car id like to see:

[BenDover]

with a figure?

ooo, what kind of figure?

[TWOLF]

Is that the 50mm Puma?

[Pongo]

No its not..
that is a 20mm gun. not much parity with an M8

[GooseAW]

Originally posted by F4UDOA
I would luv to see the Jackson and the T-34. Maybe we could get an armour only arena in here??

I thought the "Pizza" Map was an armour only arena..lol

[Shane]

Originally posted by hazed-
can we please have some of our shots on tiger frontal armour richochette off? If AH armour modelling adds each shot until it gets to a certain number and then makes it a kill.

i see ricochets off tigers all the time.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by hazed-
btw this is the German armoured car id like to see:

(image of SdKfz 232 deleted)

Nahh. The SdKfz 234/2, with the 50mm turret gun: