Author Topic: Top 10 stats being posted as I type  (Read 1447 times)

Offline BlauK

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Top 10 stats being posted as I type
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2001, 08:31:00 AM »
Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
No blauk, my current system does not do what you claim.

LOL.. that is a very thorough argument   I can show you that it DOES. Try to prove me wrong. Read on.

The only real rule that needs special consideration is the zero death pilot.  That's it.

Why is that? Is it because you encourage pilots to die once... not many more times than once and certainly not 0 times? To me it seems that it is because you cannot divide the kills by 0. The correct way would then be to add one to all deaths (converting them to lives) and thus keep all the data equal and balanced. Instead you make up your own rules and formulas and therefore distort the data and produce irrelevant changed results.

That +1 in those warbirds ratios and also in official AH stats is not there only because they are automated. It is there because that is the way how to calculate such ratios. You cannot reinvent mathematics u know.

K/D for people with deaths will all be recorded with 100% accuracy.  The people with zero deaths will be limited by the total number of kills since there is no way to guess just how much farther they would have gone without a death.  If they wanted to go farther, they would have risked more.

Just as well there is no way of knowing how much farther anyone would have gone before their second death. That is no basis for separating the 0 kill guys. Once again, this risk factor does not work in your formula. After one death the risk is discouraged. One death is the optimum for your formula. Look below how much the data is distorted:

 

Snefens has flown more and risked more, but he is the one who is wronged on your chart. Then again all the guys who have only died once are getting a huge raise.

You argue that 6:0 is less than 7:1 because: "6:0 will win out... but if the pilot wants a better record than someone at 7:1 he should have RISKED more and flown another sortie." So how about if you compare 7:1 to 8:2 ????? Why is 7:1 =7.00 and 8:2 =4.00

What is the huge difference between dieing zero times and once compared to dieing once and twice? Should the 7:1 guy not also need to risk more to be better than 8:2 guy??? So That risk reasoning does not work!

The minimum number of kills required to make the k/d list is the screen for the minimum risk required to make the list.  The only time that doesn't work well is with lesser used aircraft where someone with less than 20 kills can make the list.

Minimum limit is ok, minimum kills that is, but not minimum deaths. The basic reason for the mistake in your thinking is that you are comparing kills to DEATHS. Kills are not achieved in deaths. They are achieved during lives or careers. Death only separates two lives in this game.

Since you disregard one life for all (exept those who have not died at all) those who have less lives also get more benefit. One death guy has 2 lives in the cost of 1 (+100%), while those pilots who have flown more and died more get e.g. 11 lives for cost of 10 (+10%). Your thinking does not encourage pilots to risk more than the very first death. Period.

So.. I know why I am doing the way I am.  I'm sorry that you seem to have such a difficult time with it.  I really hope you get over it soon.

Finally... No , I will not get over it. I dont need your stats really, we make our own for my squadron. If you insist on distorting the results with your own formulas, I will just forget youre stats ever existed   The reason I wrote here was to help you and the resto of the guys who look at your hardly worked stats. That is one reason I had not checked my 109G-6 in your stats earlier  

The pity here is that you are doing a lot of work in vain only because of a small mathematical error you refuse to see. Please ask some mathematician, your math teacher, just anyone who know about statistics and cases like this (when comparing to a factor which may be 0). It is a great thing that you are doing such stats, but what is the idea of them if they show incorrect distorted results.

To Zig,
Would it be proper not to tell someone of his mistake and just let him do a huge load of work for nothing? I think that would really be a disfavor.

Think it over.. try to prove my points wrong and you may realize your own mistake. It is not such a big one... (+1) !!




  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34      


Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2001, 08:59:00 AM »
 
Quote
Why is that? Is it because you encourage pilots to die once... not many more times than once and certainly not 0 times?

No.. because I encourage pilots to fly more.  If a pilot doesn't want to risk death by taking a plane up again... that's his choice.  Once again, someone that is 6:0 will be higher on the list than someone who is 6:1... he just won't beat out someone who is 7:1.  Its pretty simple.

 
Quote
Snefens has flown more and risked more, but he is the one who is wronged on your chart. Then again all the guys who have only died once are getting a huge raise.

Wow.. going through life with blinders on must be your forte.  You do realize you moved the guy that has risked the least up to number two in the rankings with your system?

BTW... this isn't a cumulative score page.. it doesn't rank people according to anything other than K/D.  That's KILLS divided by DEATHS.  6 kills to 1 death = 6/1.. not 6/2.

For the pilot with 0 deaths, I can either leave them off since the math is impossible, or I can add 1 to the denominator so I can show some ratio in an impossible situation.

What I am not going to do is skew all the ratios just to meet some "everyone else does it" philosophy.  It doesn't work for numbers this small... and that's the only place it really is being used here... virtually all of the situations are under 10 kills.  Its really a moot point.

AKDejaVu



Offline BlauK

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« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2001, 09:15:00 AM »
LOL  

I GIVE UP. You only choose to read what you please. You make pointless counter arguments and do not answer relevant questions. To argue is to provide evidence and comparisons. You did nothing to prove me wrong.

Just for your own sake I hope you someday understand how very wrong you are in this matter  


  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34      


Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2001, 09:57:00 AM »
And you make it sound as if you were willing to discuss it... rather than convince me you were right.

I guess that works both ways eh?

AKDejaVu

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2001, 10:03:00 AM »
Thanks for all your work AKDejaVu
Amazing some people are just never happy, almost like they go around picking things apart just to find fault and squeak about them.

109f King again <-total kills, who cares about k/d's it's all about tenacity  

Eagler
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Offline darling

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« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2001, 10:17:00 AM »
Ah, no I understand, DJV, as per danish's explaination. I'll be sure to get more kills this tour.

Current stats:
Darling kills in P-51D: 59
Darling deaths in P-51D: 18

K/D 3.1 approx.

Now just for keeping it up.

BTW, where do you dig up the info DJV?

------------------
2nd Lt. Hogni "Darling" Gylfason
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
143rd Pursuit Wing
 

[This message has been edited by darling (edited 05-08-2001).]

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2001, 10:30:00 AM »
 
Quote
BTW, where do you dig up the info DJV?

The only hard info to dig up is pilot ids.  Most of them I retrieved from squad listings.  The rest from memory or by request.  I have about 1600 ids I'm tracking right now, though I'll most likely trim that down next tour.

The rest is available to everyone using the stats page.  I just retrieve each pilot's stats and place them into a table... then sort the table.  The retrieval process has been automated so that the stats are grabbed while I sleep.  It takes about 8 hours to obtain.

The rest is done by hand.  Its not too bad though, since it has contributed to a ten fold increase in my Excell usage skills

AKDejaVu

Offline ET

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« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2001, 02:01:00 PM »
AKDejaVu:It is a great amount of work you did to compile the different lists in such an easy to read format.I appreciate your effort and I thank you for doing it.
ET:The oldest pilot.