Lord of the Rings - Two Towers - age rating??

[Leslie]

Haven't read all the posts, but am responding anyway.

If you haven't seen it , go see it.  Take your kids with you, and cover up their eyes when the head on the stick shows up.

The rest of the movie is A-OK.  Top notch.  5 Stars.



Les

[Sparks]

J_A_B

I feel sorry for little kids who are forced to watch mind-numbing trash like Barney or Teletubbies or Sesame Street.

So do I - I'm not advocating and squeeky clean "ahhhhh lovely" world.

Each person has to make his own decisions. My opinion is based on my own experiences...when I was small, MY parents let me watch whatever the heck I wanted to and I'm no worse off for it.

Thats a phrase I hear a lot when I've had this discussion with guys at work - a close freind of ours has said the same thing to me.  But sometimes I see in their kids a coldness and visciousness, a oblivious outlook on horror that I personally find disturbing.
Don't you think that maybe it's possible that your parents allowed you more access to things than they had and so your acceptance level is different to theirs. now you are allowing your kids more access and so their acceptance level will be adjusted similarly - thats what I mean about the de-sensitisation of kids.

More to the point, the blood and gore level in LOTR is very very tame compared to the likes of movies such as "Friday the 13th" and "The Evil Dead" which were so common when I was younger.

I agree to an extent but also Friday the 13th was an 18 - I wasn't watching that at 12.  As a kid Clockwork Orange and Rollerball were the "shock" movies - films now considered blah - my parents would under no circumstances have let me see those.

...If anything, pointless sex situations/crude jokes and horrible language are both more troublesome in movies/TV than violence is. I'd be more comfortable letting a child watch LOTR than an hour of the average weekly sitcoms on network TV.

- here I agree with you totally but is probably where I'd need an extra flamesuit layer.

I'm not saying LOTR is a bad film - my daughter and I both enjoyed it - I find it a good story.  I just had an issue with the censors guidance.

Puke

I think you're missing my point.  I have no problem with the content of the film.  As you say it is a classic good vs evil story.  My point is the level the censors have set it as a guide to parents as to its graphic content.   Your point about Animal planet is also fair but I, if you like, "vet" amount etc the same as any other viewing.

My point is this (if I can get it across properly) - we all know violence is a part of life "nature is red in tooth and claw" but is it necessary to expose children to that violence at full level unrestricted from early years?  I don't believe so- that is my decision as a parent.  So as a parent I take the censor levels as a start point for guidance - note a start point - I felt this was too liberal.

Sparks

[Puke]

Sparks,

Now I am really confused about your point.

I have no problem with the content of the film.

but is it necessary to expose children to that violence at full level unrestricted from early years?

My point is the level the censors have set it as a guide to parents as to its graphic content.

as a parent I take the censor levels as a start point for guidance - note a start point - I felt this was too liberal.

Is the movie too graphic or is the censor-level too liberal?  Yes, this movie deals with themes of war and death which can be touchy to some.  The last thing I'd like for anyone to see is war made to be all flowers and fun...it's an ugly thing and people do die and it should never be entered into too lightly.  That's great that you look out for your son's best interest.  I know my son and what he can handle.  

And maybe this will help you...I've seen Two Towers twice.  I am my own boss and so gave myself a day off the Wednesday the movie came out and saw it alone at 3:30pm.  I took my son on Thursday at 5:30pm after having seen it and knowing just what was in it.  Overall, there are not a lot of scenes of gratuitous violence.  My son did exclaim "ewwwwww" at Golumn's rabbit scene and then giggled.  After the movie, he started asking me the background for some of the characters.  He enjoyed it and I've not seen any sign for him being worse-for-the-wear after having seen it.  Hopefully this encourages his enjoyment and interest in stories and tales and leads to him becoming an avid reader.

[Nifty]

Pongo sounds like a Hobbit name.  

umm, parents should decide if their children see a movie or not.  Ratings are just guidelines (tho R ratings must be accompanied by an adult in the US, some theaters don't enforce this though.)

Umm, I saw Alien when I was 4 or 5 (hehe, I was a sneaky kid and we had HBO.)  It freaked me out and gave me a nightmare or two, but Alien is one of my all time favorite movies.  

Same with Jaws (and that freaked me out as a kid too.)

I turned out ok.   I think...  

[Wlfgng]

I just can't be happy in my own mind

that's what it's all about.  The parent makes the decision.. not some general concensus on what's good/bad for them.
IMO the parent should know best.

If you feel it's ok for you kids to view a given movie, go for it.
if not, stay at home

[Kweassa]

No gripes here in Asia.

 Helm's Deep is a Hilton compared to our high schools.

 I remember this one time when I got caught in high-school for taking a quick sip of a smoke and got caught by a teacher called "BloodWipe" who ripped off the stick part from a 6-foot janitor's broom and ....

 *CENSORED*
 *USE SOME IMAGINATION*
 *FLESH AND BLOOD*

 ... and when I came to, I couldn't remember why I was lying on the floor. Couldn't sit on the chair straight for a week..

 So.. the moral in this story is..

 live in a world where everyday life violence is harsher than in the movies, and all your problems are solved!

[fd ski]

I'm torn on the subject. I think those are wonderful movies and book is a work of art as well, but i'll think twice before i'll let my daughter see it.
I may let her read it when she's 14 or 15. Imagination turns those things down.
Seeing the movie on the other hand is a whole different issue.
While well made, it is cruel, violent and very graphical. Good and bad is not an issue here.
I don't want my child to learn that it is noble to murder anyone in "good cause". At least at that early age.
We complain that children today are not like they used to be. They don't respect authority, elders. They don't think rationally but selfishly. But wouldn't it be partly related to the fact that children today were allowed to see the adult world for what it is ? Crass, violent, mildless and unreasonable ? Maybe they don't respect because there simply isn't anything to resepct anymore ?

I used to think that being an adult was a very misterious thing. All those things i wasn't allowed to see, hear or taste. I respected those who experianced it because they made their passage into adulthood. Once i joined that group, i found out it was way overhyped. It isn't interesting, it's dull. It isn't new, it's repetitive. Now what would happend if I knew this at ago of 7 ?
How would i feel about being intimate with my significant other had i learned all there is about sex at age of 10 ?
What if the relationships were brought down to the mind tricks level by religious watching of "friends" every day since i was 8 ?
Would i still respect adults ?
I doubt it.

Yes, we've seen some of those things, and we turned out "ok". But were we really exposed to barrage of those everyday ?
I remember seeing Jaws and being scared to toejam for weeks following. I couldn't sleep cause i saw a big shark coming out of the floor and biting me. My parents never found out. For them it must have appeared as "no problem". For me it was traumatic. I wasn't able to go into a sea for weeks after that movie.

Children aren't as tough as we are. They haven't experianced all the crap that life puts us though. They are naive and think in simple terms. For us a sight of an orc getting it's head chopped off in one cut isn't anything new or interesting. But what will it do to an 8 year old? Just because you don't see an intermediate result, it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Just my 2 cents.

[Sparks]

Puke - first I respect you for watching the film alone first - Either my wife or I do the same thing and I've found not many are prepared to do it - wtg.

Second on the confusion - I don't believe the film is too graphic for an older audience - I do believe the censor rating as acceptable for under 12's is too liberal.


Fd-ski - you have said what I think better than I could ever have done - Thank you

And MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

It all comes down to good parenting in the end...

If you taught your kid well, they'll turn out good.. regardless of the movies they see...


If you teach your kid poorly... they'll end up.... well... there's a whole list of bad things that could be put here.

It's a movie, if you did your job as a parent.. it'll only have the effect of being interesting...

I saw Jurassic Park when I was 12... I saw a lot of war movies before then, and I saw a lot of other gruesome movies with various attrocities...

In the end it's the parent's job to make the kid understand... it shouldn't be up to laws, regulations or society to dictate to the kid the difference between real and fiction, good and bad....

And that's why the movie is somewhat regulated.. it's regulated in a way to make the parents go to the movie with the kid, so the parents can explain to the kid...
-SW

[J_A_B]

"We complain that children today are not like they used to be. They don't respect authority, elders. They don't think rationally but selfishly. "

Which, you will find if you choose to look, is the exact sort of comments parents 100 years ago were making.  I personally don't think children today are any worse than any other generation's children.  

Sparks--

Remember that the PG-13 rating isn't exactly a "good for all ages" rating; rather it's literally "parents strongly cautioned" for children 13 and under.   Isn't that how YOU feel?  You wouldn't feel comfortable letting a 6-year-old watch it, and neither would those who gave it that rating. That is why it HAS that rating.  Giving LOTR an "R" rating would mean that 16/17-year-olds couldn't go see it without older adults along.  Surely you'd agree that such a situation would be silly!  


Oh, and I don't think that gory movies "de-sensitizes" children from violence.  Rather, I suspect that children naturally have no such sensitivity (this is why many armies favor young soldiers).  It's been said many times that children are naturally cruel.  Rather, sensitivity and empathy are feelings we learn as we mature, feelings that a well-made movie like LOTR can help to illustrate.

J_A_B

[udet]

kids need to see violence...what if a war starts?