Dont expect miracles from IL2

[Russian]

[Vulcan]

Gotta say IL2 is pretty, but I didn't like it. I didn't like it when I saddled up on a p39 and squirted a load of 30mm into him and he kept on going. I didn't like it when I rolled into attack the bombers he was escorting and their tail gunners cut me in half almost instantly.

I found the views are extremely restrictive. A WW2 Pilot could move his head around, I can check my 6 sitting down without moving my shoulders.

I found the 190 bizarre, the guns seemed to fire sloping down the front fusalage, making it necessary to use ESP to hit anything (the 190 at speed flies nose down).

FB will be interesting, because it will be released with aircraft that are still in flight today, with aircraft that haven very documented stats. Like the P51, so it will be interesting to see the flight characteristics based on Soviet data. It may end the Soviet vs US flight data arguments either way once and for all.

Its very hard to compare an offline, or 8 player game, with a MMPOG. There is so much finesse underneath the MMPOG to make things works. For instance, the 'laser' gunnery so many people squeak about? Don't forget to take d300 for net lag off. So you d1000 hose suddenly becomes a d700 hose. And how many of you soap-boxer-preachers have squirted a few off at 700?

Oh, almost forgot, the altitude indifference. If this sim has such toejam hot physics (jbroey?) why doesn't it model the alt difference ... which coincidentally favours the LW?

Apples and oranges. I looked at IL2 for an offline sim, but found some 'inconsistancies' I didn't like so left it.

[28sweep]

I think the FM's in Il2 feel more like real airplanes.  I only got 10hrs logged in a real plane but it feels alot more like Il2...especialy at low speed.  Cut the throttle way back on a final approach in IL2 and you will loose the airplane-fast-first nasty mush then spin.  Just like in a RC plane I fly and the real one I have flown.  Do that here and u can glid in on u're E and land.  YOU CANNOT LAND A 12,000LB AIRPLANE DEAD STICK THAT EASY LIKE YOU CAN DO HERE.  Everything just feels so lazer like and precise here ....... as far as gunnery goes- sombody posted some great gun-cam footage from LW rides and it was remarkable how much damage the airplanes took and kept flying.  Bombers took round after round of heavy cannon fire and still flew with no prob.  After viewing the footage-I believe Il2 damage model more....

[Vulcan]

BS.

First of all, most of the a/c in AH are not 12000lb's. Only the heaviest fighters weight in at that fully loaded. And the 10 hrs you logged in a real plane really helps compare,? You logged those hours in a P51? If you compare - what a cessna? - with the IL2 flight model and say the IL2 fm is right then somethings gotta be wrong. A WW2 fighter flies a little different to your average cessna I think.

Interviews posted here with ppl like actual Spit pilots have confirmed that the AH 'on rails'/snappy feel is fairly smack on. The mushy feel like in WB is wrong, guys who have flown these a/c in combat say so. About the only thing AH is missing is the odd turbulence bit of which IL2 does have. A fighter going 300kias does not waggle its tail like IL2 does. Take a look at this site: http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/movies.htm  it has some nice tempest movies, note the 'rails' flight model.

As for the guncam footage, looking at 5-10 seconds worth of footage doesn't tell you sweet FA. You don't get to look back and see the buffs falling out of the sky, or rolling out of control because the crew is dead. What you do see is massive chunks of planes coming off, gunner positions not firing back. Those guncam movies are great, but they don't give you the full picture. You're also comparing people here saying a P39 absorbs 30mm like a sponge, with footage of B17s and B24s, very different planes.

[Wotan]

p39 doesnt absorb any ammo "like a sponge". I look for coops with p39s in umm as they are some of the easiest kills.

Rounds in il2 dont pentrate or detonate internally everytime.I  shot an il2 from hi above and watched a 30mm round pass through the wing and detonate on the other side. Some bounce off depending on the angle of impact.

Some detonate on the surface.

The gunners in il2 bomber are far less lethal then in ah and certainly dont pick you off at 1.5k (lag be damned). As for the lag my squaddires and for big week tested all sorts of attacks with guns and rocket and verified distance between each other. Some had cable some 56k and some dsl. There was no d300 discrepancies.

I have had planes swollow up rounds in il2 but it was mostly from a poor attack angle.

The mushyness you feel in il2 is related to stick scaling. I am pretty comfortable with my stick settings in il2. However a squaddie cant get his right and hates it.

Il2 is boxed game with multiplayer component. Its still fun. As for the yaw waggle keep the ball and slip indicator centered and you rudder scaled and its not a problem. Theres no auto trim in Il2.

YMMV

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

28sweep, 12hrs in a Cessna (you've done how many dead stick landings with 12hrs underneath your belt?) and flying an R/C airplane are nothing like a sleek piston engined fighter.

Wotan, I've shot guys down in AH that said "how'd you do that from D700?" I answered, "It's easier at D430"
-SW

[Suave]

Yep, that east front version of JaneswwII fighters does have better damage graphics than AH .

[Wotan]

I will take your word for it.

But I was in a snapshot with Zigrat . He was in a yak 9t I was in a g6. He was d740 my fe at my 6. We were similiar speed and otd the deck I did a slow turn to see if he would bleed so I could extend and come back. I get nailed with a ns 37 mm that puts me right in the tower. I say damn d700? he replied "just over d700 my fe".

With the turn he had pull lead but landed the shot. I have not seen the d300 lag that some claim in my inquiries into folks who hit me at long range.

Now we can chalk that hit up to Zigrats skill in ah but he was d700 my fe and d700 his.

Scot my squaddie in tod was nailed in at d900. He said it was d900 his fe. He was off to my left line abreast and we were in a shallow dive extending away from hi enemies. The con that hit him was d970 or so my fe. Scot was hit and his entire tail flew off.

All I offer is my experience.

I ho'd an la7 in a g6 one time and hit him with 30mm. All he did was smoke.  Urchin came in behind and claimed to hit a few more times with 30mm. The guys eng quit and he hit a tree and Urchin got the kill. I shot a lanc in a 152 12 times with 30mm and he only had 2 eng smoking. These are rare exceptions but they happen in ah as well. FYI my sec and primary fire button are mapped seperate and I fire them seperately as well.

like I said

YMMV.......

I am not a pilot and there are differences in ah and il2s fm but they are minor imho. Gunnery and DM its a huge difference. Things like plane form shots are much effective then ded 6 shots.

IL2 cant replace AHs instant action and multi bogey enviroment. Nor would the view system and no icons in il2 be viable for ahs main. Theres far more going in ah then we can handle on our 2d monitors. But il2 is a nice change of pace imho.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

No doubt we could easily experience different things based on lag and various other internet anomalies.. I'm just saying, I've experienced the ~100ms+ differences.

The differences in the Il2/AH FM are great- but they may not be so great when FB comes out... we shall see. But even Oleg has said himself that the demo for FB is Il2... and we have all seen (through screenshots and info releases) the big differences FB will introduce.

I definitely think Il2 is great, and it is a fun game like AH.. I don't believe either can be compared... but I like each for what they offer.

But in the FM department, Il2 is definitely lacking... and you have to admit, the complete lack of engine degredation as alt increases is a big problem in Il2. With FB it'll be different... and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to AH in the FM dept then.
-SW

[Yeager]

you have to admit, the complete lack of engine degredation as alt increases is a big problem in Il2.
====
I must have missed something here.  When I fly at 9000 meters the engine in my Yak3 feels like its producing 1/3 the power it does at 3000 meters.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

That's because of the reduction in air density as the alt increases... the actual engine's output at higher alts is the same at alts above 3000meters.
-SW

[Suave]

AH gunnery model is better, ballistics and  KE and HE damage and trajectory changes relative to air speed, and atmospheric density are modeled more realisticly than wb or janes Il2. AH lacks the graphical representation of damage that Janes Il2, or Janes WWII has . Dispersion of flexible guns in AH is imo too tight .

[Hristo]

AFAIK, AH planes fire hybrid rounds. Rounds that are AP and HE at the same time, based on ammo loadout statistics.

In il-2 different round types are modeled. Try firing into the ground and notice different effects for various types.

[Wotan]

and you have to admit, the complete lack of engine degredation as alt increases is a big problem in Il2. With FB it'll be different... and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to AH in the FM dept then.
-SW

Thats really never presented itself as problem as most fights are under 3000m (10,000ft). Depending on the mission I usually grab to 4-5k meter (13-16k feet) and have always ended up above the enemy. The fights end up lower at 3-5k feet (1 to 2 k meters).

[28sweep]

Ya my 10hrs was in a 172..ok.  Never said I was a test pilot.   All I'm saying-is that when you are on approach in AH u can cut throttle and just glide in every time...in any plane.  Hell-even in FS2002 you can't do that on the easy settings!!  Somthing is missing here with regard to low speed handling...