Author Topic: Dont expect miracles from IL2 (Read 2011 times)

Tuborg · « **on:** December 24, 2002, 09:44:31 AM »

Guys, dont overestimate or expect miracles from IL-2!! I've had it for a year now and still only play it occasionally. All though especially the weather and light effects are extremly nice, the view system and perspectiv still sucks beyond all believe!! It almost forces you to fly "cockpit off" mode, which is nice if you are a pot-head or extremly drunk, but ruins all your senses of real ACM. (unless you put wingtip smoke on which gives you a sort of orientation). Futhermore, and most importent, the ability to identify the flight path, manouevre and identity of your opponent at long and medium range is way way behind AH, even at highest grafik settings. Actually im amazed that i dont seen some more icon-off mode games in here, because as far as i can see, AH is simply the only sim out there which can handle it. You dont find anywhere such clean and good acm's then in AH, even in the biggest spit/nik furball. In IL2 almost everybody is just milling around in their über-yaks and La's, an endless turn and burn fiesta, so you will come screaming back in here and wanna hug and kiss all spit and nikkis and forgive them their dwebbery.

Cheers

Wotan · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2002, 09:58:34 AM »

if you only have flown occassionally then you havent the experience to know who runs what.

There are lots of easy mode rooms out there but when you learn who hosts what and where the best fights are il2 is much better then you would find in ah. From acm on wards.

The 1 thing it lacks is the instant access like logging into the main has.

All the other things you mention become easier the more you play. I can easily spot the bad guys in il2 with no icons. I can get generally plane type from the profile.

The thing of it is though you can find the settings you enjoy most and stick with them. Where by AH is one size fits all.

AH is at the top of the mmopg flight games. But from a guy who flies il2 more then just occassionally to one who rarely flies all the the things you cited are based on a lack of flying time.

Also you get a greater benefit from flying with friends and squaddies who are all learning the game and sharing their tips then on your own.

edit
And from your la5fns and yak3/9u furballs there are early war df servers as well. Not everyone has all planes enabled.

Kweassa · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2002, 10:08:36 AM »

Ever wonder if that "clean ACM" part is really what it should be?

No intent of criticism, but at first I thought to myself EXACTLY what you wrote here. The stalls were more sensitive, the cockpit was more restrictive than AH, and like you said orientation was difficult because I couldn't go from observing 5 O'c to 7 O'c directly. Swiveling them left and right was very disorienting and confusing, and the limit of 6 view made it difficult for you to execute precise maneuvers as seen in AH.

In AH, you look straight behind and count to yourself "...600...500...400... NOW!", and execute the maneuver. It comes out looking clean cut, straight-from-the-textbooks, precision timing ACMs. In IL-2 this is difficult. Going for a maneuver such as an overshoot is extremely dangerous, and difficult to time because you can't just keep watching 6 with the "Linda Blair" style.

Sometimes I wonder if all these "ACMs" we are talking about were really of use to the real life pilots.. or even possible at all.. the fancy, advanced moves we execute cleanly everyday in AH... rolling scissors, super speed 190 rolls..

I still think AH is the best, but now that I've played IL-2 for some time, and got used to how you must fly in IL-2, I have to admit the margin between the 1st place and the 2nd is becoming narrower everyday.

Frankly I don't think people praise IL-2 because they think it's a new phenomenon, or maybe a miracle. It's just so much better in some of the aspects and people wish to see those in AH too, I guess....

Tuborg · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2002, 10:41:53 AM »

"Sometimes I wonder if all these "ACMs" we are talking about were really of use to the real life pilots.. or even possible at all.. the fancy, advanced moves we execute cleanly everyday in AH... rolling scissors, super speed 190 rolls.."

Well, the education level of pilots released to combat-duty was in fact very very good, if you weren't in 100 % controll of your a/c you where simply not put in a fighter unit at the first place. The literature is full of examples like this. Only if you could fly "instinctive", without thinking about this and that, you where able to have chance in combat and concentrate and the far more importent and difficult aspect of aircombat: Situation Awareness.
I still bet: put off the icons and get some better ( eerr..i mean worse

) weather in AH, and it would be much more of the real thing then any other sim.

Wotan · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2002, 10:57:09 AM »

well then you over look gunnery and dm. All the eye candy aside. In ah acm is almost like fighting against missile armed aircraft where manuvers begin at d1500 or so because if not the hail of bullets from the spray pray will get you.

Any 1 of those bullets no matter the angle of impact has the ability to cause real damage if not kill you.

Even with icons on and clear whether you dont see the wall of bullets thrown up from far ranges like you do in ah.

Il2 in now way replaces those massive battles we see in ah. But ah has shifted to "war winning" beyond air combat.

Kieran · « **Reply #5 on:** December 24, 2002, 12:10:10 PM »

The guy doesn't like Il-2, it isn't the end of the world. I don't think he's right either, but he is entitled to an opinion.

Wotan · « **Reply #6 on:** December 24, 2002, 12:16:23 PM »

who said he wasnt?

Wlfgng · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2002, 12:25:14 PM »

just got a screaming machine (p4, ati 9700 pro, etc)
and IL2 is amazing... I liked it before but now.. woah.

it isn't instant-action, or MMOPG,, but it still rocks.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2002, 01:32:40 PM »

It's really pointless to play Il2 unless you got an uber machine to crank out all of the details.

I know, I played on a less-than-uber machine... then I uberized it and now I can run at full details (everything set to excellent, S3TC + 1024 textures, Anistropic 2x, Quincunx FSAA, 1024x768x32bit) and sound is cranked up to the best it can be.

That's the only way to play Il2.. otherwise the graphics look between 1997ish and 1999ish.

Of course, then again, I have an opposing view point to anyone who says that ACM or the ability to manuever is significantly different between AH and Il2... that's simply not true.

The only difference is the complete lack of engine degredation as altitude increases, and the over-restrictive cockpit views. I will join up on a full real early war dogfight server in a second... anything else and I'll just go play AH.

When I get bored of the mindless quakeballs in AH, I go play Il2... when I get bored of the mindless quakeballs in Il2, I play Il2 coop, when I get bored of waiting around for a good host, I go back and play AH.

With FB will come rear view mirrors... so in a way, the much vaunted linda blair 6 view by "realism nuts" (snicker) will be back again.
-SW

Wlfgng · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2002, 01:38:34 PM »

same experience here. gameplay and graphics.
althought I cranked my resolution up a bit further than that

capt. apathy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2002, 01:52:06 PM »

you really don't need such an awsome machine as most people think.

I play with most setting maxed. I run a p3 1g, and radeon 7200. not real hot for todays standards.

the key to getting Il2 to run smooth is RAM. I put 1gig of ram in this thing and have no troubles with IL2

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2002, 02:03:09 PM »

Fast RAM is actually the key. You need 512MB of RAM only... well unless you are running that resource/memory hog also known as Winbloz XP... but on 98 that's all you need. I have 768MB PC133 SDRAM (o/cled to 141Mhz) and the game runs pretty good unless there's a LOT of action... but if I get DDR memory (need a new mobo) then it'll be even faster.. and that'll be my next upgrade.

And I keep seeing this posted in threads, particularly here.. "if Il2 were MMP, AH wouldn't survive."

I'd bet $100 that statement wouldn't come true, and I'd win.

There's far too many holes in Il2, and chances are in FB too, to be MMP worthy. Most of all, the netcode and the system required to run it in a MMP environment won't be out for another 2 years.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2002, 02:28:17 PM »

Wotan-

Didn't say you did (suggest people aren't allowed opinions); we have to be careful not to HC someone because they disagree with our opinion of our particular game.

Wotan · « **Reply #13 on:** December 24, 2002, 03:12:42 PM »

I dont think this is in the same vein as TC but maybe I am biased. TC case starts his own threads mostly.

Besides both ah and il2 are better then wwiiol

I fly the planes the same way I do in ah. It took trial an error to get my stick scaled to be able have it feel similiar. But in AH gun defense begins at and much further ranges. Things like popin 1 notch flaps in a 109 and slowly out climbing an enemy with a steeper climb angle are impossible in AH because the guy following will pull his stick straight back and spray like mad.

The way the planes behave isnt that much of a difference except in stall.

Il2 looks better but as I said in another thread the gunnery and dm are what make il2 enjoyable to me.

AH aint gonna go broke over il2. Especially focusing on the eastern front.

jbroey3 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2002, 04:05:39 PM »

Aces High -->Easy gunnery(inflated % of damage per hit)

Il2--->Far more complex damage system(hits = where/how much energy + travel through other systems)

Flight characteristics (Aces High --more predetermined feel "rails")
(Il2-- more fluid, possible greater complexity of airflow calculations) Even seen on simple yet important items such as ground roll. Torque effects/p-factor etc...

Graphics --(Aces High--- substandard compared to Il2, as well as portions of Warbirds, Fighter ace... etc)

(Il2---very "now" technology as opposed to Aces High 90's graphics)

Multiplay on the Internet-- Aces High about the same as Il2 when hosting a Head to Head (not the main arena) battle. (However Il2 beats Aces High in this aspect due to all the other combined features minus a "ground war" aspect.)

Multiplay on a Massive scale "Main Arena" -- Aces High has this... Il2 Doesnt...

Give Il2 a Dedicated robust internet Server with code that handles packet info on the server side, some change to the limits of Il2 player numbers = Death of Aces High.

Merry Christmas..