Author Topic: IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?  (Read 811 times)

Offline ViFF

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« on: December 26, 2002, 07:11:55 AM »
posted a question at the O'club and just wanted to drop a line here, so anybody who has some info could pop in and give a response:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74031

Reason I'm asking this is I have a few friends who play IL-2 and I want to introduce them to Aces High. They asked me what merits Aces High has thats better then IL-2, other then offcourse the difference between a multiplayer sim to a mmog sim.

Thanks & sorry for the bandwidth space :)

Offline Wilbus

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2002, 08:01:37 AM »
Flight modells are often quite similair, IL2 has harder and more things can happen to the plane. Dammage modell is far superior in Il2.

They'll probarly like AH, specially since it has a fairly difficult FM (like Il2) compared to almost all other sims and the addition to play very many players aswell as many planes although VVS haven't got many planes yet.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline vorticon

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2002, 10:32:19 AM »
community and a 2 week free trial after wich you may play free in the hth or pay 15 bucks a month t o play in the "arenas"

most of the players here are people who have been playing this type of thing since air warrior or at least war birds

Offline eagl

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2002, 03:04:42 PM »
AH also has trucks and boats with guns that affect the gameplay of all players, whether or not they care about the ground war or strategic (capture) aspects.  That is either a very strong plus or a very strong minus depending on what you're looking for in a game.

When you fly in AH, you're flying in a more deadly and complex world than in a game that focuses on air combat, because in AH the ground stuff (trucks, boats, AAA) is mannable and quite deadly.  That's great if you want to participate in the bigger online struggle, and occasionally crummy when some dude (or AI routine) in a truck or boat ends a great air to air matchup prematurely.

It just depends on what you're looking for.  AH can be pretty complex if you play the entire game instead of just one aspect of it.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline wetrat

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2002, 01:53:12 AM »
Everything about IL-2 is better.. excluding multiplayer, of course. IL-2 has better graphics, better models, and more realistic gunnery (i'm lucky to shoot 5% in il-2 as opposed to 20% in AH).
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Offline eskimo2

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2002, 03:36:45 AM »
I just got IL-2 and have been playing it all day.  The basic difference between the two FMs, is that after playing AH for 3 years, everything in IL-2 seems to fly like an overloaded P-47.  Basic turns in IL-2 seem more laborious.  Planes seem less responsive in pitch and yaw, more responsive in roll.  Planes hamerhead quicker in IL-2, but seem to pull out of dives much slower.  Energy retention feels a bit different.  I haven't put my finger on it yet (only had IL-2 for one day) but it definitely feels different.  Aircraft nose bounce is more prevelant in IL-2 (on my system/stick).

Is the FM better or more accurate? I don't know.  I can only guess because I can only compare it to other sims, not RL.  It is very different than AH.  I tend to fly with a lot more full elevator in IL-2, rarely do I pull full elevator in AH.  

Weapons are not effective at range in IL-2.  It also seems as if you get much less hits at range.

Folks say tha damage model is better in IL-2.  Well, it is clearly way ahead in graphics, but I don't know if it is more accurate.  

Planes seem to absorb a heck of a lot more damage.  If AH has a damage madel that is too sensetive, then I would say IL-2's damage model is too forgiving, way on the other end of the scale.  Even at point blank range, you can blast the snot out of an enemy plane, see tons of cannon hits, and planes keep on chugging.  Based on what I've read and seen in gun camera footage, planes just are not that tough.  Planes were often destroyed with a split second burst.

I would say the opposite for the GV damage model however.  In AH, GVs (esp. trucks) are way too tough.  In IL-2, they are all powder kegs.  Perhaps this has to do with gameplay, however. In AH GVs are player controled, In IL-2 they are AI.  Both situations make for better gameplay for each type of sim.

IMHO, guns in AH may be too effective at long range, but in IL-2, they are generally too weak at all ranges.

eskimo

Offline Dowding (Work)

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2002, 03:48:39 AM »
Unless you have actually experienced flight in the planes concerned, in arguing that one FM is more 'realistic' over another, you might as well be a pair of blind men arguing the relative merits of the work of Van Gogh.

Offline ViFF

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2002, 04:56:43 AM »
Great analogy Dowding, I agree :)

Even for those of us with flight experience it is tough to compare, unless its a discrepancy thats glaring you in the face.

I do believe the flight models are very similair, in the O'club StSanta said he feels the Aces High model is a bit too crisp, while the IL-2 may be a bit slow in response.

For example, during a dive, when the aircraft accelerates, in IL-2 the faster you go (before reaching compressibility speeds) the harder it becomes for you to pull out of the dive, whereas in Aces High your allways able to pull the required G's (blacking out quickly at times) to pull out of the dive...   up to speeds when compressability sets in offcourse.

I believe this stems from the fact that in IL-2 the stick forces become heavier as the airspeed increases.

Offline Dowding (Work)

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2002, 05:05:57 AM »
Of course, I assume glaring inconsistencies (with historical accounts/data) are not part of the discussion. For instance, fully loaded stukas turn-fighting with Spit Mk1s. ;)

Offline Wilbus

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2002, 05:58:47 AM »
Quote
I do believe the flight models are very similair, in the O'club StSanta said he feels the Aces High model is a bit too crisp, while the IL-2 may be a bit slow in response.


Agreed.

I still believe the Dammage modell is far superior though. Eskimo said one can blast away on a plane and just see it fly away. Well, it's true but I've also gotten kills in it with single 20's or just 30 cal ammo, shoot at the right place and it will go down. (Mig 3 goes down by looking at it and saying BO!).
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline janneh

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2002, 06:14:24 AM »
The damage model is sure different than in AH. But according to the books of finnish WWII pilots, that I've read, they had to aim very carefully in order to bring nme fighter down. Is IL-2 gunnery & damage modelling more accurate than in AH, dunno.
One IL-2 thing that I really want to see in AH is I-16 ! Boy it's fun little aeroplane :)

Offline Kaz

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2002, 08:01:53 AM »
yeah you can get your I-16 after the great super duper mighty Ki84 is in AH :p

Offline ra

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2002, 08:27:40 AM »
Slighty OT:  will FB require a whole new purchase, or will it be an add-on to Il-2?

ra

Offline Creamo

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IL-2 Flight Model, how does it measure up to Aces High ?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2002, 09:00:25 AM »
New. It only ommits the original IL-2 missions (I think). It is the full original game, patched, + plus FB in one box.