Diving and max G test

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Hristo
you bunch of hidden-agenda-luftwhiners !

wen't you a luft whiner?

[Hristo]

I got to know the universe, or something like that

[pugg666]

uhm...don't mean to dissagree with ya Mandoble, but


I quite clearly see 9 G's for longer than a fraction of a second.
190 D9

Only i used auto level instead. just saying it's perfectly capable of 9G's

[Thrawn]

Heheh.  "Undeniable" proof?  Of what I wonder?  I'm going to go with unfounded paranoia.

[pugg666]

uhm...don't mean to dissagree with ya Mandoble, but

hehe.

at most i guess your test just proves that 190's require more trimming than a typhoon.

[Toad]

Towd, you're US based. Why don't you round up the "undeniable proof" and call Pyro? I'm sure your compatriots will help you build the package of proof.

Better yet... you're Texas based, aren't you? You could drop it by.

Might as well get a definitive answer, eh? Rather than rolling around in all this misery on the BBS?

[Wilbus]

of course the Jug had a reputation for sturdiness that i've never of about the 190, but i've never read a book by a 190 driver...

Then i really do sugest you go and buy some good 190 books as it was VERY KNOWN to take alot of punishment and get home.

at most i guess your test just proves that 190's require more trimming than a typhoon.

Which is sooo wrong too, the 190's didn't require any trimming at all when changing speeds, they could trim the elevator some but wasn't needed. It satyed stable in all speeds.

[pugg666]

for clarity.

at most your test proves that a 190 requires more trim "IN ACES HIGH" than a typhoon.

Wilbus, he's trying to find a weakness where there is none. it's a game, have fun.

Which is sooo wrong too, the 190's didn't require any trimming at all when changing speeds, they could trim the elevator some but wasn't needed. It satyed stable in all speeds.

use combat trim to SIMULATE the fact that the 190 did not require trimming while in flight

no offense Wilbus, just pokin ya abit

[whgates3]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Then i really do sugest you go and buy some good 190 books as it was VERY KNOWN to take alot of punishment and get home.
...

i'd love to, but i try to stick to reading primary sources (pilot autobiographies) & have come across only two LW vets to write up their experiences, both 109 drivers (adolph dickfeld - also involved w/ He162 - "footsteps of the hunter" & Heinke Knoke "I flew for the fuhrer")...Galland i have not read, as his book has been thoroughly denegrated...you know any others?

[Wilbus]

RgR Whgates, the good ones are hard to find but they exist. I sugest you go and get the book called "Focke Wulf Fw 190 in Combat" by "Alfred Price". It contains combat reports by both fighter pilots and attack pilots (both flying 190's) first hand info from test pilots flying the Mistel (190 with a Ju88 underneth it). Flight reports by Kurt Tank aswell as much more text by Kurt Tank aswell as from several 190 test pilots.

I love the book, not much raw technical info but more of the combat report type of book and the idea behind the 190.

[Wilbus]

Rgr Pugg, not sure if there is one here when it comes to sustained G turns. However, there are problems with the 190's that have been proven, won't mention any of them here but they exist.

I am about to stop caring anymore (still care some) and take it for what it is instead.

As for Combat trim, could use it sure but shouldn't have to if the Flight modeling in AH was correct


And no offence taken mate

[MANDOBLE]

pugg666, try 9g substained with 190D9/Ta152 at 550 mph: plain impossible.

Toad, what do you recomend me to do? I've posted about the almost null elevator control at hi speeds with 190s a lot of times, what more to do about that? just to give up and admit that Pyro is right, 190s were just plain briks above 500 mph while P47 or Typh were historically able of 9Gs substained at that speed? Sorry Toad, I'm not going to buy that, and I'm not able to do more than these tests and the films.

[Sancho]

Diving the P-47D-30 from 30k at MIL power straight down, you will lock up at 550 true air speed.  At this point you have almost zero control.  You can pull out of the dive, but to do so successfully (without use of dive flaps) requires throttling back, trimming up elevator, and letting the nose come up slowly, pulling about 5-6Gs.  It is possible to aggressively pull out, but not at sustained > 9 G as is suggested here.  Once you slow down below compressability speeds, the aircraft noses up hard and once you exceed 9G your head explodes (you find yourself in tower 'heaven' suddenly) or you'll rip a wingtip off.

Diving the FW-190D9 or A8, you will lock up at 575 mph, 25 mph faster than the jug.  P-51 is about 565.  Typhoon is tough to gauge since you have to view the TAS in film viewer and watch where it locks up there, but it looks to lock up at about 565-575.

Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.

[MANDOBLE]

Sancho, your tests is very different than mine. Diving from 30k to 20k is very different than diving to 2k. No compression at all 550mph with P47 at that alt and 9g substained available.

[Toad]

1. IF I had as big a problem with some area of the game as you appear to have and

2. IF I felt that I had posted my perception of the problem AND a clear, unambiguous evidence of the problem and some sort of "proof" that something was wrong and

3. IF I thought no one at HTC was listening

THEN

I'd do one of two things.

First, I'd call them on the phone, ask for Pyro since it's an FM thing and I'd ask him if he'd read my stuff and what did he think. Then I'd discuss it further depending on what he said. This is by far the first and best choice. Person to person contact is the best and quickest way for you to get an answer and relieve yourself of the obvious discomfort this problem is causing you.

If I couldn't afford the relatively minor cost of such a call, I'd write a cogent, polite letter explaining my point of view and include "certified" paper copies of documentary evidence supporting my postion as well as a CD with films from the game to show what I"m talking about. I'd send an E-Mail to Pyro telling him I was sending him this package. I'd send it Pyro and then I'd wait. If I didn't hear anything in say a month, I'd send another E-Mail.

That's what I'd do. But I can't ever imagine myself in that position for reasons too numerous to mention. It is, after all, just a game to me.

Still, you can do whatever you want. However, you've already stated that your repeated posts here on the BBS are not providing a satisfactory solution for you.

So why continue?

As Sax says in his sig "Quit blowin' on the fur and get down to the hide!"

Phone call is the best. I think you'll find Pyro a very rational, intelligent person who can explain his position quite well and without rancor.

Good luck!