Author Topic: Diving and max G test  (Read 1821 times)

Offline MANDOBLE

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Diving and max G test
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2002, 08:47:28 PM »
Toad, I find this BBs more than adecuate to post my, yours, Pyro's or whoever oppinions/replies.

Offline hitech

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« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2002, 08:58:00 PM »
Wilbus: However, there are problems with the 190's that have been proven, won't mention any of them here but they exist.

You just assume there are, if you are refering to roll rate, we did a test of the D9 just before release 1.11 it was correct, but a chart some one posted once did not have the ah correct roll rate values. So once again get off the luftwiner conspericy theroy.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2002, 09:08:57 PM »
Well, Mandoble, then I guess you aren't REALLY interested in getting anything changed then, are you?

Because you yourself have said you're not getting any satisfactory answers with this method.

It leads me to believe that you just like wallowing in your misery and perhaps would be even more unhappy if you didn't have a " noble cause" for which to sacrifice yourself.

So, wallow away. Enjoy the angst.  :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline whgates3

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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2002, 11:03:35 PM »
oddly enough i went to the bookstore today (powell's - best bookstore west of the mississippi) & found "Heaven Next Stop" by Abbeville boy & 190 driver Gunther Bloemertz...so far book seems not to focus on planes...more like "Flight to Arras" than "Thunderbolt"

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2002, 05:02:19 AM »
Hitech, not at all refering to roll rate, I find nothing wrong with it at all, nor do I find anything wrong with the other 190's roll rate nor the the 109's roll rate.

Did alot of tests comparing the Spit 5 and 9 to the 190 A5 (A5 being better then A3 which was used in R/L) and the Spit (both of them) outperformed the 190 in almost every way except maximum level speed. The 190 was said by both pilots who flew it, those who encountered it and those RAF test pilots who flew it to be a  much better accelerating aircraft in dives, much better then spit 5 in level flight and slightly better then the Spit 9 in level flight (acceleration wise). Pulling up from a high speed dive it outzoomed the Spit 5 with eas, as did it from level flight. The spit 9 was almost as good when pulled up from level flight while the 190 was quite much better when pulled up from a high speed dive. The Turn rate of the 190 was no match for the spit and both spits could easily outturn it.

I have the test reports if you like them, they exist on the web aswell. So really, after reading test reports, combat reports by RAF and LW pilots, test reports from RLM and Focke Wulf there is really no way I can be convinced the flight modell of the 190 and Ta152 is right (Ta152 should btw have its maximum speed at 41,000 feet where the Jumo 213 E-1 using GM1 had its best altitude, ours have it at 31,000 feet) in AH.

By saying this, I don't say that AH is bad, I love it and I always have since the first day I played it, a few hours after the Beta was released. it's the best online flight sim there has ever been and will be for a good deal of time in the future.  

I don't in anyway think there is some kind of anti Luftwaffe conspiracy, this only seams like a bad defence for alot of people who don't know what I am talking about. The 109's feel really good and they are just as bad in high speed as I expect them to be (again, after test reports that seam to line up very well with AH 109 FM). The 262 is exelent as is the 163 (too good as we don't have to suffer engine failures).

But I do think you need to look over your Focke Wulf 190/Ta152 numbers again, maybe twice too. If nothing else, it is quite clear that the 190's needed no trimming while flying, not in dives or level flight. Sure this could be countered by combat trim but should it have too?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2002, 05:05:06 AM by Wilbus »
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline MANDOBLE

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Diving and max G test
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2002, 07:41:26 AM »
More tests, diving from 15k and pulling out at 550mph (all of them diving vertically with combat trim enabled and WEP):

Typhoon >9G substained
Tempest >9G substained
P40E 9G substained
P47D30 9G substained
P51D 8.5G substained
La7 5G substained
Yak9U 4.8G substained
Ta152H 6.5G for a fraction of second, then 4G substained.
190A8 6G for a fraction of second, then 4G substained.
190D9 6G for a fraction of second, then 4G for 2 seconds and then controls lockup and crash.

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2002, 08:18:04 AM »
Quote
190D9 6G for a fraction of second, then 4G for 2 seconds and then controls lockup and crash.


Stick Problem? Shouldn't lock up ones yer in turn.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline MANDOBLE

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Diving and max G test
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2002, 08:52:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
Stick Problem? Shouldn't lock up ones yer in turn.


No Stick problem. Step by step it is as follows:
1 - D9 diving vertically with WEP and combat trim enabled from 15k.
2 - At 550mph, I start pulling stick as hard as possible getting 6G for a fraction of second.
3 - G load drops abruptly to 4G, but keeps there only for 2 more seconds, not enough to put the plane on level flight. D9 still diving, so, accelerating, the stick alone is not able to recover D9 to horizontal flight.
4 - G load drops quickly as speed increases, controls lockup and crash with the sea.

All the tests were done with combat trim, no manual trim applied to exit the dive.


I dont know where the problem is, cobat trim responsiveness? trim respose? elevators? dont know, but the difference between 190D9 and Typhoon/P51/P47/P40 elevator control is enormous at hi speeds, just where, supposedly, 190D9 shines.

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2002, 08:59:36 AM »
Aha, ok, now I understand.

Btw, how do you messure the G? Remove blackouts from flying offline or look at film or something?
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2002, 09:03:04 AM »
I just record the flights. And blackouts are not present using film viewer.

Offline pugg666

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« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2002, 09:09:38 AM »
Mandoble,

watch my film.

Offline MANDOBLE

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« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2002, 09:55:42 AM »
hehehe pugg666, good try. In your video, it is clear you simply push the autolevel button, u didnt use the stick to exit the dive.

Now try the same but using the stick and combat trim alone, wep on all the time and dont use the autolevel feature. Autolevel trims your plane for level flight inmediately, much faster than u are able to manual trim the plane, btw, IMO, in a frankly unrealistic way.

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2002, 12:56:04 PM »
He did write that he used autolevel in the post far up :)

However no it's not the same...
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Urchin

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Diving and max G test
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2002, 05:06:54 PM »
Could it possibly have something to do with joystick settings?  I ask because my results were a little different- with the 190a8 I got about 5.5-6Gs sustained after going to 575 TAS, pulled out with out 2k left under me.  Diving from 15k after I let the speed get to 200 mph in level flight.  

With the 190D9 I got about 6G's sustained- I never hit 9 G's at all.

Offline whgates3

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Diving and max G test
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2002, 11:00:57 PM »
this bok i got from the 190 pilot is quite excellent - full of revelations. in one section he dives in his 190a away from B-17s & thunderbolts to "well over 800 kms" - probably indicated airspeed as he says the needles was at the stop - and pulls out using the motor driven elevator trim (stick was immobilized by slipstream)...no mention of G meter readings, but he blacked out.  also interesting is that he says he could pull more G w/out blacking out by putting his head between his knees, so maybe if you look at the floor & zoom in, the blackout effect should be reduced