Author Topic: The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour  (Read 1537 times)

Offline beet1e

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« on: December 30, 2002, 05:41:02 AM »
That is the sentence that resulted from the Major/Lamont legacy of Britain’s bungled attempt to join the ERM. In 1990, Maggie Thatcher was ousted from Premiership by her own party. Unfortunately, this once excellent Prime Minister had overlooked that her oft-quoted maxim ”Absolute power corrupts, absolutely” also applied to herself. Michael Heseltine initiated the leadership contest, and it’s too bad that he was displaced by the grey man, John Major. Heseltine would have been good, and I tended to favour his pro European stance. Instead, Major became PM and appointed Lamont as chancellor. Between them they instigated Britain’s ill conceived entry into the Exchange Rate Mechanism with the £ valued at too high a level, and one which could not be sustained by Lamont’s tweaking of interest rates. The result was that we got bounced out of the ERM ignominiously on a day which one newspaper, the Telegraph, dubbed Black Wednesday, but which the Times dubbed White Wednesday in view of the freedom from the shackles of the ERM and the high interest rates that went with it – at a time of the deepest recession since the 1930s. :rolleyes: The whole debacle cost Britain billions of £, a devalued currency and thousands of businesses bankrupt by high interest rates.

Not surprisingly, the popularity of Major’s government and of Major himself went down the tubes. The result was that “New” Labour under Tony Blair had time to consolidate, and returned to power in 1997 with the biggest majority any government has ever enjoyed in my lifetime. I had hopes – not high hopes, just hopes – of T Blair’s “New” Labour, but those hopes were soon dashed into a zillion pieces. Europe had become a divisive issue for the Tories, and Blair knows that. He also knows that by failing to commit to Europe (single currency etc.) he can keep the Tories divided indefinitely.

So what happened? Did we get the promised reduction in NHS hospital waiting lists? No. The waiting lists lengthened. For a time, they (read Frank Dobson) were able to blame the legacy of the Tories, but that time has expired. The price of road fuel has risen sharply (95 unleaded up from 57p to around 76p per litre) but are we seeing any improvement on the roads? No. Road development came to a complete halt last year. We’re paying more, but receiving less. Labour is fond of advising us to “use public transport”. There is no public transport alternative. The trains cannot cope with the passenger loading they have now, never mind if all driver commuters were to switch to public transport. Has crime gone down under Labour? No. It’s gone up! – largely, I believe, because of vastly over lenient handling of criminals.

Then we’ve had all Gordon Brown’s stealth taxes – at least 50 since Labour was elected – including abolition of mortgage interest tax relief, tax on property insurance premiums, abolition of the restitution of income tax deducted at source in lieu of personal tax allowances – the list goes on and on. Let’s not forget sleaze! Cheriegate – LOL!

Can we vote them out? Easier said than done. Just as in the 1980s, Her Majesty’s Opposition is pretty much nonexistent. The Tories are in terminal decline, and I’m unsure of the Lib Dems. Besides, Labour won’t hold an election till at least 2005, which they will almost certainly win, and the next opportunity to vote them out won’t come till 2009 – 12 years hard Labour. Even then, the required swing to the Opposition would be likely to topple Peter Snow’s swingometer.

What are we to do – any ideas?

Offline Tumor

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Re: The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2002, 06:04:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

What are we to do – any ideas?  


MOVE TO FRANCE!!
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline TWOLF

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I wish you all the best.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2002, 07:15:22 AM »
Well, I will not start a political debate. But I will say that I hope that things are worked out in the UK.  I have been to the UK many times while stationed in Germany.  I used to fly from Ramstein to Lakenheath on mail hops almost every weekend in 94. (Had a girl in Durum).  For me, Europe is home.  I am a US born European with German and Scottish ancestry.  Don't get me wrong I love the U.S. I served in the Regular Army here for a very long time after all.  But Europe is were my fore fathers were born.  As Dorothy said "There's no place like home" In 15 years I will retire and I will return to Europe for good. I haven't decided if I will retire in Germany, or Great Britain.  Next year, or the following year I will be traveling there to look into some property.  That will be the deciding factor.

  For all my Fellow U.S. born Europeans. (That’s about 70% of you) you should try to visit Europe at least once in your lifetime.

Offline ra

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2002, 07:18:36 AM »
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Did we get the promised reduction in NHS hospital waiting lists?

How could this possibly be accomplished?  They may as well promise you rain-free weekends.  Politicians don't have magical powers.

Offline beet1e

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2002, 08:46:43 AM »
  • Tumor!  It is being looked into...
  • TWOLF - yes, I take comfort that we have close links with Europe, and I can live in any EU member state. I make VERY frequent trips to mainland Europe - helps keep my sanity!  lol I see you're from Chicago - I lived in Mt. Prospect 60056 for about a year, 1980/81.
  • ra - I note your comments, but that does not alter the fact that those promises were made, and indeed formed the centre piece of Labour's election manifesto. NOW what they're saying is "Oh. The NHS is still in the doodoo, so if you want a proper health service, you're going to have to pay for it". Thus, Employee's National Insurance (a bit like US F.I.C.A.) will rise by 1p/£ in April. But... it won't help the NHS, as the money recovered by that increase has been earmarked for wage increases. No, it was a change made by T Blair to buy some time and to be seen to be doing something about the dire state of our NHS.

Offline Toad

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2002, 08:58:14 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
[but that does not alter the fact that those promises were made, and indeed formed the centre piece of Labour's election manifesto.


What?

 :eek: :eek: :eek:

You mean your POLITICIANS made promises and then DIDN'T KEEP THEM?

:eek: :eek: :eek:


.......just when you had me almost convinced everything was perfect over there.

Well, except for a few.. umm.. a bunch... ahhhh dozens... hmmm a whole lot of other things.

You want the state to do everything for you? You know Heinlein? TANSTAAFL?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2002, 09:01:26 AM »
where will it end??  heck... you may not even be able to trust the "home office" pretty soon...   You might even wonder why your government is so concerned with making sure it's citizens are unarmed before long...
lazs

Offline Hortlund

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2002, 09:06:05 AM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
where will it end??  heck... you may not even be able to trust the "home office" pretty soon...   You might even wonder why your government is so concerned with making sure it's citizens are unarmed before long...
lazs


yes...a conspiracy...

Offline beet1e

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2002, 09:13:53 AM »
Toad & Lazs STFU and PO. This is a UK/Euopean thread.

Offline Toad

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2002, 09:36:43 AM »
Oh, my apologies!

May I suggest, however, that you then post this in a restricted, purely Euro environment? This BBS is frequented by folks from all over the world as I'm sure you've noticed.

Or at the very least, could you include a warning with your first post that all other unsophisticated and unwashed folks like us Yanks that are not from your country just keep our opinions to ourselves?

I mean, it's the least we could do. You've so often extended a similar courtesy to us.

:p
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Kieran

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2002, 10:10:09 AM »
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Toad & Lazs STFU and PO. This is a UK/Euopean thread.


Can I believe my eyes, or is this another "unwitting test of Americans" by the Brit genius?

Your advice for Americans has been freely flowing (and unsolicited) for some time now. I think you are ignorant of America and Americans despite living here, therefore your opinion of our laws means nothing to me. Now when the shoe is on the other foot you want Americans to stay out of it because we can't understand European issues? I agree- we should, so long as you don't go trying to ram your Euro-views down our throats (as you have).

Sadly I think the irony is completely over your head.

Offline LePaul

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2002, 11:39:10 AM »
Me thinks the former landlords are bitter  :D

Offline beet1e

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2002, 11:39:58 AM »
OK, you don't have to PO, and you don't have to STFU. But it would help - lol. What I notice from Mr. Toad is that whereas he is well capable of an excellent debate, he sometimes lets his pants fall down by trashing threads. Seems that for Mr. Toad, having an audience of hooting Yanks who are only too willing to have him beat their drum is more important than adding original thought or making sense of any kind. :rolleyes:   <

But Kieran!  I am encouraged that YOU have replied. You see, for so long I was accused of writing boring threads etc., that when I posted this with a UK title, I thought the combination of that plus my name against it would turn most Yanks away. But it seems that Kieran at least yearns for more of my missives - even when they are not about America!

Nope. I never gave advice to Americans. I merely make observations. :)  When the Yanks think they can deride Canada, or Britain, or France, well I just have to write a thread about the US as a reminder that America has not cornered the market in Perfection.  :D  Careful now, I am reaching my threshold as it's been a while since the last one.

Offline Wlfgng

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2002, 11:44:34 AM »
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America has not cornered the market in Perfection.

says who?:eek:

Offline Kieran

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The UK's punishment: 12 years hard Labour
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2002, 12:08:27 PM »
Beetle-

It seems to have escaped your elevated intelligence that I have not made the least comment one way or another as to my opinion on your political dilemma, given I don't live there and am not a citizen. I merely commented on your hypocritical request for Americans to stay out of a non-American issue.

Please, continue to backpedal as you wish.