Keep me in AH...

[Nath-BDP]

I'd like to keep playing AH but right now I'm in doubt that its not realistic, after all, I played this game since beta and this new FM was never around. Instead, us veterans got use to more E fighting, now its alot of TnB.

So, someone prove to me how and why this new FM is realistic.

-Why does the Typhoon stall at such lower speeds and it doesn't drop wing as it use to?

-109G10 seems to have the same manouverability as the P51 at speeds of 450IAS, this wasnt true before 1.04.

These are a couple of the things bugging me.

Thanks,

Nath11

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BEAT DOWN POSSE
 www.theregulators.org/bdp

   

Aces High Scenario Corps

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 09-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 09-09-2000).]

[skernsk]

Nath.........I love this sim for the graphics, strategy, and the people.  I have yet to fly a fighter in the MA.....but I love the new bombers and the Ostwind will be a force to be reckoned with.

I too have been here since beta......that doesn't make me any more or less important than a newbie.  I like the way HTC has DEVELOPED the sim.....and as we all know.....not everybody is happy.  

There will be tweaks and adjustments along the way.  I am not an expert in a planes historic flight envelope and quite frankly if it's a few MPH off big deal.  Realism can only go so far in a computer sim.

I'm looking forward to learning how to fly TnB style!

[funked]

"Why does the Typhoon stall at such lower speeds and it doesn't drop wing as it use to?"

The real question is why did it handle so bad in the old version.

[Wingnut_0]

I can't figure out why some aren't happy with it.  

I've fought u Nath..and you have great skills in that 190.  But I can think of 1 fight..where by the time I turned 180 (not yanking either) and tried to climb up behind ya and couldn't cause in that 180 turn my speed dropped terribly.

Now I fly only LW planes and so I'm used to BnZ.  I had better runs than ever tonight for the simple fact I had more E.  

My gunnery completely sucks..so snapshots are low hits for me.  Which means I usually have to high yo yo or bleed someone down with another zoom pass....So maybe that's our different perspective here.

I fly the 109's a lot and in 1.03 if I got below 280 I simply couldn't keep my nose up for any kind of quick zoom (say in a scissors that I got caught in).  For the first time tonight, I was able to have someone drop on my 6, and start a high AOA spiral climb to stall him out...which worked.

I hope that you change your mind, but if it don't float ur boat..it don't.

Wingnut

[bloom25]

I'd give it a couple days, there will be patches for sure guys.  (I know I'll be needing a lot of time getting readjusted to flying again.)

I only got to fly one sortie, but even that proved interesting.  I fought a co-alt & e p51 in a p51.  I got around on his 6, but then he started roller-coastering continuously.  I couldn't hit him of course then.  I know you couldn't do that in the past for very long.  Overall though I'm impressed with the changes, and I'm sure I can get used to the new FM changes eventually.



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Fury]

Nath I can't prove to you why you should or should not stay in AH.  I've found through the years that a man's choice is a personal matter, and not many people are swayed by others' opinions (unless they are jello).  You're the only one that can decide for yourself.

I can tell you till I'm blue in the face, this or that feature of something that I think is cool, and it may not make any difference to you, hence you won't play it.

I do have to say that my meetings with you online have been fun and hurt a lot (i.e. I die) and I have a general opinion that you're a good pilot (in the game).  But if I wasn't having fun.....I wouldn't waste my money.

Fury

[Sharky]

Nath,

Are you still here???  I thought you quit?  Man you get our hopes up by announcing all over channel 1 that your quitting and here you still are.

Sharky

[StSanta]

There sure are some issues with the new FM.

Usually, slide slipping a big 6-10lb fighter would induce drag, and slow a fighter down.

Using my normal StSanta Suicide Approach (450 IAS, as you come very near field, huge barrel roll with full rudder input) slows me down quite much. Now, rudder ain't got a snowballs chance in hell to bleed e. I looked at the speedometer (what's the word for it in English?) and it dinnae move one bit with full rudder at 230IAS@ 1k alt.

It's a work in progress, but they sure have worked a *lot* on the new fm.

With the result that I end up lawn darting after being shot outta the sky  

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime

[Wanker]

<Holds the door open for Nath, hands him his walking shoes and coat>

[Downtown]

Learn to adjust and adapt, or dont and stagnate and die.

The new version has been out one day.  In one day you have decided that you can't adapt to the new FM and decided to quit.  I can't and won't even try to say anything to convince you to stay.  If you choose not to adapt then you may as well leave.

You say that the New FM isn't a challenge and isn't realistic.  I agree that it isn't realistic, in my logical mind I thought some of the planes retained too much E before.  Now I can zoom climb a P-47D with a Drop Tank like a Saturn Five at Full Throttle.

I will try to make logical arguments, find documentation to support my conclusion, and present the evidence to HTC.

I won't say, I don't like it and I quit cause I don't like it.

Here is my point of contention.

If two planes are flying directly towards each other, same E-state, and the two planes are identical.
They Merge on a Head on Pass and don't fire.

One plane flies straight and level, and the other reverses to get on the others six.

The Plane that turns just lost energy.  So long as other plane continues, the plane that turned should not catch the one that maintained its E.

When you travel in a direction, you get inertia and momentum, when you change direction you loose some of both.  That causes a difference that physically cannot be overcome.  If the other plane turns more, or climbs, you can over come it, but if it doesn't it should escape.

As far as I know HT is the only person to have flown a World War Two Era Fighter in mock dogfights.  He can't relate that experience to us, but he can judge the FM of the Game and the FM of a Real World Pony in a dogfight.

I can only apply the ancedotal evidence of my limited education in physics and what I have read of combat in WWII aircraft.

The NEW FM DOES Not follow that evidence in my judgement.

I COULD BE WRONG!

I need to de-conflict that in my mind, and no one else can do that for me, unless HT will get me a CHeck Ride in a P-51.  

Those of you who say you are quitting because you don't LIKE the new FM are Free to Go IMHO, don't let the door hit you on the way out.  You could be right, and you will never know because you CHOSE TO GIVE UP!

I plan to re-examine my perspective, re-examine the evidence available to me, this may change my perspective, or may make me argue points that may be reflected in future refinements to the FM.

There is also the possibility that I am Jaded by what I came to expect of the 1.03 FM and prior, there were things there that didn't meet my expectations, the countless times I was killed by Torques snapshots at solutions I thought were impossible to kill at has always bothered me.

There are a lot of things about the old FM that I couldn't reslove in my mind, perhaps with more time I will be able to resolve them with the new FM, perhaps not.

I am not quitting, I will not advise anyone who cannot adapt and adjust to stay.


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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.

[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 09-09-2000).]

[crabofix]

Nath, thought you left?

[Jekyll]

 

As far as I know HT is the only person to have flown a World War Two Era Fighter in mock dogfights. He can't relate that experience to us, but he can judge the FM of the Game and the FM of a Real World Pony in a dogfight.

You reckon that Pony was configured with full internal fuel, armor plating and had 6 machine guns with full ammo loadout?

Sorry, but comparing a modern P51 with its WW2 distant cousin is like comparing apples to oranges.  

As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on 1.04.  All the planes certainly seem to hold 'e' much better than they did previously, and the stall horn is a thing of the past.

Is it realistic?  Don't know.  I'll defer to our 'Aerial Einsteins' who might be able to answer that question.



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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps

[Downtown]

Jeykll,

You are right, did it have to features?  I don't know, I dont know if HT ever expressed that info, perhaps he will share, if he even knows.

Perhaps they put weights in the wings to simulate the weight of the guns, and weights in the cockpit/fuselage to simulate the pilot armor?

And I wouldn't say apples to oranges, more like 1940 era naturally grown apples, to 1990's hyperbolically grown steroid injected apples.

Jeykll, have you flown a plane at all? Have you flown anything with the weight and manuverability of a WWII Fighter, Anything close to a WWII era fighter?

A 1990's P-51 is closer to a 1940's era P-51 than a Cessna is to a P-51.

I can't tell you the differences, the only person I know of with a experience writing a Flight sim with WWII Era Aircraft is HT.

Is he fudging for finances, or truly trying to relate his experience, jaded or not, to this sim.

Only HT can say.

What do I have to base my judgements on, my limited understanding of physics, my reading of WWII Era Air COmbat, and WWII Gun camera footage that I have seen.  I would place more value in regards to flight sims on HT's experience over mine.  My education, reading, and viewing have formed my opinions and they could be jaded.  Without the experience of having FLown a WWII Era fighter I have to defer that judgement to HT. Though I don't give up the right to question that judgement, and attempt to de-conflict the discrepencies in my mind.

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"Looks Mean as Hell! Clare Lee Chenault.
When?
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.

[This message has been edited by Downtown (edited 09-09-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

Hmm... I said I quit AH, not bbs...

[Animal]

If you quit AH then whats the problem.
Is the BBS not challenging enough?  

well bud cya. I really admired your flying, even tho I had to squelch you a few times, you are a good flyer, but an awful sport player, so I guess what we will be missing from you is your name in the kill buffer, nothing else.

-Animal