Author Topic: of interest to jug fans?....  (Read 437 times)

Offline hazed-

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of interest to jug fans?....
« on: January 03, 2003, 07:56:58 PM »
Just recently purchaced a few new books just to spoil myself :)

anyhow in 'Combat Legend Focke-wulf Fw 190' by Peter Caygill theres a piece on the tests performed by the USAAF in italy in december 1943 using a captured example against a republic P-47D-4 Thunderbolt.

'Both carried a typical combat load and the tests were flown from sea level up to 10,000ft. The Fw190 was considered to be in exceptionally good condition for a captured machine and acheived 42 inches of boost pressure on take-off, although it lacked the P-47D's water injection.
 During acceleration tests the Fw-190 initially held an advantage at all heights and speeds, quickly gaining about 200 yards, but at 330mph IAS the P47 began to overtake rapidly and quickly drew away. The story was very much the same in the climb with the Fw-190 being superior over the first 1,500ft, but thereafter the P47 achieved dominance and out-performed the fw-190 by 500ft/min. Dives of 65 degrees were carried out from 10,000ft to 3,000ft, starting at 250mph IAS.Once again the Fw-190 held an initial advantage but was passed by the p47 at 3,000ft at a much greater speed.
 At speeds in excess of 250mph IAS, the two aircraft were turned on each other's tail as tight as possible and alternating the turns left and right.The P-47 easily out-turned the Fw-190 at 10,000ft and had to throttle back to keep from overshooting, a level of superiority that increased with altitude.It was found that the Fw-190 was very heavy in terms of fore and aft control, vibrated excessively, and tended to black out its pilot.Below 250mph IAS however the ability of the fw-190 to hang on its propeller and turn inside the P-47 was very evident.The Fw-190 was also able to accelerate suddenly and change to a more favourable position.
The concluding remarks of the USAAF report were as follows:
 The 190 performs nicely in all aerobatic manoeuvres with the exception of a very slight fore and aft control which makes low altitude manoeuvres dangerous.This aircraft has an extremely bad high speed stall in turns which is not so evident in high speed pullouts, but if trimmed and pulled hard enough it will spin violently straight down without warning.Aileron control is very good at all speeds and rudder control is normally good.Forward and side visibility are very good while rear visibility is very poor. The cockpit is uncomfortably small for a pilot taller than 5' 11".Bailing out would be difficult for any pilot.The aircraft is quite nose heavy which would make dead stick landings dangerous.The engine seems to run rough at all times and the vibration transmitted through the control column almost completely destroys the feel of flying characteristics.This characteristic is partly responsible for the lack of warning in high speed stalls.'


just thought you might like to read it too
« Last Edit: January 03, 2003, 08:09:05 PM by hazed- »

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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of interest to jug fans?....
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2003, 08:24:10 PM »
Ty Hazed.

So, in a dive, upon initial acceleration the FW is 200y ahead, then 7,000ft later the Jug is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past him .;)

Maybe it's time to model *cought*gravity*cough* ... exactly the type of BBS behavior that HT loves:D I'm moving up in his "players to ignore" list.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2003, 08:29:26 PM by SFRT - Frenchy »
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline ra

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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2003, 08:29:51 PM »
What kind of 190?  And it had no WEP?  Engine rough?  Nothing to go on here.  

ra

Offline hazed-

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of interest to jug fans?....
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2003, 08:52:39 PM »
yep ra its a little short on info i admit but it does point to this test info being available somewhere.Maybe someone can go find it now we know its been done.Perhaps HTC already has it but you never know it might be something they havent seen.

True it had no water methanol and by the sounds of it something was wrong with the engine but its still interesting to read.

unfortunately frenchy this, like all the other tests reports ive posted like the RAF ones performed by Capt.Eric Brown DFC (ones often quoted) arent acceptable as evidence. If we are told that the RAF tests between the 190 and spit5/9 arent enough to change the modeling in AH then the bat swings both ways doesnt it? you cant take this as evidence the p47 is better in the dive than the 190 according to their way of thinking.What do they call it? anectdotal evidence?! hehe Sorry bud :)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2003, 09:03:00 PM by hazed- »

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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of interest to jug fans?....
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2003, 09:13:20 PM »
I'm teasing HT and Pyro for years with the Thunderbolts behavior in dives. There are all the Thunderbolt Ace's books who entertain the same "Jug ubber dive conspiracy".

In the other end, to be fair, I'm sure that Hitech's crew is already taking in account way more stuff about the law of physics and aerodynamics that I can understand. If their FM gives the Jug limited diving capability, it's probably very true.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline HoHun

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Re: of interest to jug fans?....
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2003, 09:20:01 PM »
Hi Hazed,

>anyhow in 'Combat Legend Focke-wulf Fw 190' by Peter Caygill theres a piece on the tests performed by the USAAF in italy in december 1943 using a captured example against a republic P-47D-4 Thunderbolt.

Scans of the report and a discussion of the results can be found at:

http://pub131.ezboard.com/fallboutwarfarefrm31.showMessage?topicID=1295.topic

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline hazed-

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of interest to jug fans?....
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2003, 09:33:14 PM »
Ho-Hun thanks a lot, fantastic to see the rest of the report :)

Offline lord dolf vader

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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2003, 04:54:10 PM »
"The engine seems to run rough at all times and the vibration transmitted through the control column almost completely destroys the feel of flying characteristics"


also destroys validity of test no?

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2003, 04:55:59 PM »
actually sounds characteristic of a 190.

Thx hazed for the info, great reading.

Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011