rank = time?

[Swoop]

Points do matter.   Take last month for example, I was on a serious streak (ended by insta-death in a ME163) of 51 kills scored in fighter mode with no deaths, 25% accuracy figure, kills per time was pretty good and kills per sortie was about 6.

And I was ranked 140th in fighters.   One hundred and shreckin fortyith.    Then after the death I got serious and quit the flyin-to-live rubbish, bumped my score up with more kills and finished 48th.


So apparently a k/d ratio of 51:1 wasnt good enough for the top 100 but 135 kills, k/d of 13:1, accuracy 17% is good for 48th.  Go figure.

[g00b]

Booky

"I logged about 79 hours last tour and ranked 12 overall. I have left out the total points factor in what I listed above. If you can beat me in all those catagory's listed in less than 10 hours then I will give you my $50. "

Well I got ya beat in the fighter department with only 4 hours of play (not including points of course). The rest of your stats for last tour are damned impressive and I doubt I'm gonna beat em with another 4 hours of play

I just wanted to make it clear that I do think all the top ranking players are very good, I'm not trying to make some whiney excuse or squeak about the game overall, I still enjoy it as much as ever.

Basically, while I do think time should be bit of a factor, I think it needs to be lessened. i.e. somwhere between 10-20 hours should be all that's necassary to wrangle a top spot if you have the skills.

Does anyone here honestly think you can do that? Proof? Thanks for your comments folks, I do hope HTC sees this.

[DREDIOCK]

A Life? wassdat?

Originally posted by g00b
I was hoping that HTC might consider changing the ranking system to make "points" less of a factor. Looking at all the top ranking players seems to indicate you need 100+ hours/month to achieve a top ranking. It seems unfair to those who are unable to play 40 hours a week. I shouldn't be penalized for having a life!

[DoctorYO]

Rank does equal time....  Exp...

40 sorties per month...  10 sorties per sortie type.. fighter attack bomber etc...

now average 20 minutes per sortie thats 800 mins divided by 60 = 13 hours plus change..

Now considering that 1 of the say 5 or six catagories per rank (8-10 for ground attack) is points thats a 15-20% (fighter rank) per catagory Fighter attack = 10% Bomber 10% etc..

Now say you fly perfect in k/D gunnery etc... but your pts is hosed... that minus 5-15% from you rank in  that catagory.

Now considering we are on a curve system as far as how your pts are judged either high or low... The whole system needs some work....

I personally hate kills over time...  Kill over time is the most shammed stats we have..   People are pulling like 15 kills per hour average..  now how did they get them 15kills per hour using deductive,, I say pure unbriddled vulchfest...

No freaking way someone can average that in pure air to air...( i know becuase less than 10% of my kills are vulches and my KOT is like 4+....

Also if you crash yourself thats counts as no flight time.... (should be a time penalty everytime you crash say + 5 mins)

so why land killls when it will penalize your KOT....

Why attack deep in enemy territory (my personal favorite.) when you will be penalized for landing all the way home..

KOT is a sham....  Traditional tactics are penalized gamming the game rewarded...

I like these clowns with the 100+ ship gunner kills..  PT boat spawn after sunken fleet ring a bell.....   Go figure..

Hitech will hopefully set up a system thats pretty fair... the current one is not...  KOT is a sham but at least its fair across the board(meaning i choose the type of mission i run), but pointts is not fair across the board...  pts represents anywhere 5%-15% of your total ranking....

you want 5-15% handicap go right ahead...

deny that pts doesn't = rank it does , if you cant see it your blind...

2 cents


DoctorYO

[vega]

"Having a life" equates to playing Aces High.  Outside of Aces High there is little to no life.  It is only natural that those who spend time in the game have better scores vs. those who think there is life elsewhere.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
I personally hate kills over time...  Kill over time is the most shammed stats we have..   People are pulling like 15 kills per hour average..  now how did they get them 15kills per hour using deductive,, I say pure unbriddled vulchfest...

Of course it's possible and even likely that 15 kills per hour could be the result of an unbridled vulchfest.  However, there are some of us for which that isn't the case, and for which K/T is a good measure of our aggressiveness and willingness to mix it up.

To say that K/T deserves less merit than any of the other stats is silly.  Vulching affects K/D and K/S just as much as it does K/T, and someone who obtains 15 kills/hour doing nothing but vulching is going to have obscenely high stats in every category.  As with every stat, K/T can only tell you a story if you know how the person flies.  It might indicate incessant vulching, or it might indicate lots of base defense or furballing.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[DoctorYO]

I do not concur

all this does is promote vulching...  

15kills per hour is 1 kill every 4 mins...  considering it take 20 secs to get a aircraft airborne..  Base defense cannot come up with that amount of frequency...

Hell i'd be impressed if we went to duelling arena upped at the same time allowed the one of us to shoot the other and repeat and see what type of kills per hour you could get..

maybe 30-40 at 1-2 mins per fight...

Now thats trying to max it so even under opti conditions some peoples score is half of that....

enlighten me ...  Im a Rook even in the superb target rich arena that we used to fly in; 15 kills per hour average (note average) without primary vulching is improbable...

15kills per hour is 1 kill every 4 minutes..  Now if you land your kills even landing will take you at least a minute. and thats landing right over the airfield at 1500 ft.... (note average time)

do you see what im pointing to you yes you might be able to justify 15 kills but only thru vulching... and then the transit time back to your base. (or landing at the enemy base (gamey as hell) under the time crunch of 1 kill every 4 mins in near impossible without suiciding yourself,  enemy death or other....  (and then you have a 20 sec reup penalty unless its auger hell around you for prox kills)

also note take into consideration that you also have to jockey with other teamates in the defense or even vulching...  The numbers just dont jive..

without a vulching denominator..  even with the vulching denominator its rare...

Please think up a scenario where you could get 15kills per hour without vulching and then post it...  Then what ever fantastic sortie that you come up with.. multiply that to a constant to form a average...

maybe ill win powerball this weekend even though im not in a powerball state... and have no way to buy tickets..  The wind bringing me the winning ticket 1500 miles to south florida has more chance than any scenario without vulching....

Not a flame on you Todd... you do the math...


2 cents...

DoctorYo

,

[g00b]

I am currently 17.388 kills/hr. I think maybe 5 or 6 are vulch kills, the rest are sheer unadulterated furball frenzy kills. My particular style of kamikaze flying often means I'll take 1 more kill rather than make it home. I also fly base defence which is why you'll see many kills of mine are spitV or a6m2, if I can make it off the runway I can usually bag a couple of quick kills in a few minutes. The other key is GV hunting. I love GV hunting, they are like free kills, and worth good perkies too. I can rack up 5 kills in under 5 minutes if I happen upon a bunch of GV's. It is all about aggressiveness . Oh did I mention that the best time to rack up good number is peak hours (5-10pst). Lotsa newbs with no SA. You can't get really good stats later at night 'cause it's all the hardcore players who take alot more work to kill.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
15kills per hour is 1 kill every 4 mins...  considering it take 20 secs to get a aircraft airborne..  Base defense cannot come up with that amount of frequency...

[/B]

Sure it can, especially if there's a CV parked right near the base.  The fights are close, fast, and furious.  I seek out engagements like this because they offer the most bang for the buck.  Coincidentally, they also increase K/T in a non-vulch environment.

Hell i'd be impressed if we went to duelling arena upped at the same time allowed the one of us to shoot the other and repeat and see what type of kills per hour you could get..

[/B]

K/T would be lower in this case than it would be in the MA.  A target rich environment is necessary... either furballs or being outnumbered.  In a furball, I could probably bag two or three kills in a minute if I'm lucky.

enlighten me ...  Im a Rook even in the superb target rich arena that we used to fly in; 15 kills per hour average (note average) without primary vulching is improbable...

[/B]

It's not improbable.  Hell, I probably average 17 kills/hour, and I've had tours where it was up to 19 or 20/hour.  They key is to find fights that are close to minimize flying time.  And once in the fight, it's essential to kill as quickly and efficiently as possible.  Chances are, BnZers and cherry pickers aren't going to kill as fast as those willing to mix it up.

15kills per hour is 1 kill every 4 minutes..  Now if you land your kills even landing will take you at least a minute. and thats landing right over the airfield at 1500 ft.... (note average time)

[/B]

I find that my flying time is punctuated by boring flights to where the enemies are, then a quickly flurry of killing, then some return time.  So once the fight starts, I can easily say that I average more than one kill every four minutes.  Sometimes I'll even manage four kills in one minute.  It all averages out after that once you return to base and factor in the time spent not fighting.  So it IS possible.  Of course, it's also possible to achieve a high K/T through vulching, as you've stated, and that's probably the most common way.  But it's not the only way.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[DoctorYO]

Very nice goob, (sincerely) last tour you were at 11 and the tour before you were at 10.9 so i think it would be fair to say this tour your having a good run?  See if you can keep it up im curious to see ya at tour end...

Note you have a high KOT but your K/D suffers as a result.. becuase you dont land your kills...

61 sorties 44 deaths....

you have no transit time at all... hence your score is weighted heavily... (Note my earlier post I explained transit time)

after reviewing your score i also see lots of la7 missions... spit in second with 29 and 11 zeke kills (50 kills between those two)   are your telling the whole truth on 5-6 vulches... and where are the vehicle kills ( i count 12)...  Note your Knit biased in your kill stats why? Im not a mind reader so not accusing you of anything but i am skeptic.... based on the data im reviewing...

See what i stated earlier is right here in front of us fellas...  If you land your kills you are penalized.

If you attack deep into enemy bases your are penalized.

Vulching is rewarded...

and yes DoctorYO is wrong (might win powerball tonight without a ticket) it may be possible to get maximum gameyness to acheive high KOT over 15 but all other stats will suffer.  

Unless vulching is the common denominator...

Not knocking you N00b you fly your style and are very good at what your do... but why should i be penalized for landing kills.. ( you might have rebuttal that deaths should have no weight also, but this is terra not bizarro)  and yes i could get my KOT up but most of my kills are over enemy lands not vulchfests (but as i stated earlier thats my choice.)

 please show me anywhere in history that losing tactical assets (in this case planes) is rewarded...  Maybe a gambit once in a blue moon but a gambit has tactical value.  In my opinion KOT should be listed but have 0-2% weight in determining rank..

Now back to the original thread about rank = Time...

Anyone argue this....  Pts is a major factor in scoring... and pts can only be achieved by a high number of sorties.


2 cents...


DoctorYo

[DoctorYO]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
Very nice goob, (sincerely) last tour you were at 11 and the tour before you were at 10.9 so i think it would be fair to say this tour your having a good run?  See if you can keep it up im curious to see ya at tour end...

Note you have a high KOT but your K/D suffers as a result.. becuase you dont land your kills...

61 sorties 44 deaths....

you have no transit time at all... hence your score is weighted heavily... (Note my earlier post I explained transit time)

after reviewing your score i also see lots of la7 missions... spit in second with 29 and 11 zeke kills (50 kills between those two)   are your telling the whole truth on 5-6 vulches... and where are the vehicle kills ( i count 12)...  Note your Knit biased in your kill stats why? Im not a mind reader so not accusing you of anything but i am skeptic.... based on the data im reviewing...

See what i stated earlier is right here in front of us fellas...  If you land your kills you are penalized.

If you attack deep into enemy bases your are penalized.

Vulching is rewarded...

and yes DoctorYO is wrong (might win powerball tonight without a ticket) it may be possible to get maximum gameyness to acheive high KOT over 15 but all other stats will suffer.  

Unless vulching is the common denominator...

Not knocking you N00b you fly your style and are very good at what your do... but why should i be penalized for landing kills.. ( you might have rebuttal that deaths should have no weight also, but this is terra not bizarro)  and yes i could get my KOT up but most of my kills are over enemy lands not vulchfests (but as i stated earlier thats my choice.)

 please show me anywhere in history that losing tactical assets (in this case planes) is rewarded...  Maybe a gambit once in a blue moon but a gambit has tactical value.  In my opinion KOT should be listed but have 0-2% weight in determining rank..

Now back to the original thread about rank = Time...

Anyone argue this....  Pts is a major factor in scoring... and pts can only be achieved by a high number of sorties.


2 cents...


DoctorYo


ps LEV 's attack missions  47 sorities 39 deaths...  3.55 kills per sortie... (then you die crash whatever...)

As stated i stand corrected thru extreme situations you can get high KOT but as stated all other stats will suffer...

Lev im skeptical of the scenario you just described your current stats show all spit5 missions..  how is that carrier based...

[DoctorYO]

bloody double post......

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
See what i stated earlier is right here in front of us fellas...  If you land your kills you are penalized.

[/B]

No, if you land kills your K/D ratio should be relatively higher than someone who does not.  That's the tradeoff.  Since they're both weighted equally, no one flying style is rewarded disproportionately over the other.

Honestly, it's beginning to sound like you don't feel your particular style of flying is rewarded enough given the current scoring system when in fact all types of flying are rewarded one way or another.  From what I can tell, those with the highest fighter ranks rarely are the furball-and-die-a-lot types.

If you attack deep into enemy bases your are penalized.

[/B]

Not if such attacks result in numerous kills that you land each mission.  Your K/S and K/D should be relatively higher than a furballer's.

Vulching is rewarded...

[/B]

You've stated this before as the reason to eliminate K/T, but that's just silly.  Vulching increases all stats from K/T to K/D to K/S to hit percentage.  Everything benefits.  So to single out K/T as being the sole byproduct of vulching is silly and self-serving.

Unless vulching is the common denominator...

[/B]

Wrong.

please show me anywhere in history that losing tactical assets (in this case planes) is rewarded...  Maybe a gambit once in a blue moon but a gambit has tactical value.  In my opinion KOT should be listed but have 0-2% weight in determining rank..

[/B]

So grabbing to uberalt, flying alone, using other players as chum, and running at the first sight of danger regardless of actual mission objectives is realistic?  The Main Arena is pure fantasy.  Most who claim to fly "realistically" do nothing of the sort beyond doing everything in their power to stay alive.  That's as unrealistic as suicide furballing.

Anyone argue this....  Pts is a major factor in scoring... and pts can only be achieved by a high number of sorties.

[/B]

For the most part, yes.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoctorYO

Originally posted by DoctorYO
ps LEV 's attack missions  47 sorities 39 deaths...  3.55 kills per sortie... (then you die crash whatever...)

[/B]

I'd hardly use this tour as any means of judging things.  I've barely flown, and the fights have been far and few between.  Last tour's fighter score is probably more indicative.

As stated i stand corrected thru extreme situations you can get high KOT but as stated all other stats will suffer...

[/B]

Are you saying that my K/D or K/S are suffering?  They seem fine to me.  I'm also quite happy with my hit percentage considering that all of it is air to air (i.e. no strafing ground stuctures).

Lev im skeptical of the scenario you just described your current stats show all spit5 missions..  how is that carrier based...

Eh?  I was referring to base defense with a CV close to the base.  Meaning that I'm taking off from land, not from sea.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[hitech]

DoctorYO, What type of flying style do you wish the scoring to promote?  This is a real question, because im curious.

Vulching by definition is flying into enemy territory. In fact I would argue that K/T promotes base deffense more than vulching, where K/D premotes vulching more than defense.

HiTech