Dispelling the La7 Myths

[Vermillion]

Ok we all know that the La7 will be added to AH in the next version. But how much do you know about the La7?

I keep seeing over and over again, people comparing the La7 to extremely rare low production or "never saw combat" aircraft like the F8F Bearcat and the Tempest. And others compare it to planes like the N1K2 and F4U-1C in numbers.

Basically this the "reasoning" that people think it should be perked.

Well, thats all wrong. So let me dispell these myths.

The La7 was an improvement upon the La-5FN that we currently have in Aces High. Aerodynamics and weight reductions were improved, giving a performance increase, but it retained the same engine as the original La5FN. This upgrade is very similar to the differences between the P-51B/C and the P-51D.

It should also be understood, that the La7 was the most numerous late war fighter for the Soviet Union, ahead of both the Yak-9U and Yak3, which together formed the "Big Three" for the VVS in late 44-45, just like the P-51D, P-38L, and P-47D did for the US Army Air Force.

Below is a table that lists the total production (wartime) for the "Big Three" VVS fighters, plus if available their introduction into combat.  The American "Big Three" fighters are included for reference. As can be seen, only the P-51D was more numerous, and the La7 was active in combat for a similar period of time.

         # Produced       First Deliv.     First Combat
P-51D       7,056          Jan 44           Jun 44
La7         5,753          Mar 44           Sep 44
P-47D-25&30 5,624          Apr 44           Aug 44
Yak-3       4,848          Mar 44           Jun 44
P-38L       3,923          Jun 44             ?
Yak-9U      3,921            ?               Oct 44

So please, if you want to compare the La7 with other planes, compare it to the P-51D, P47D, P-38L, Fw190A8, Me109G10, and other planes already in AH.

NOT the F8F Bearcat, Tempest, and the Ta152H.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure


[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 02-20-2001).]

[XNachoX]

amen.

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XNachoX
 
NIGHTHAWKS "WE BAD"
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[This message has been edited by XNachoX (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Pongo]

First combat almost exactly coresponds with the ME262 and the Fw 190D9
The spit XIV and tempest had allready been in combat for some time by then.

In AH the earlier P47 C-D and P51B would be very close to the capabilities of the available P51D and later P47 Ds.  
It should be noted that the P51H is just an airframe enhancement to the P51D so I guess its ok to non perk that as well. The P47 N is just an airframe enhancement and an engine tweek to the Jug we have as well. No nead to perk that.
The only criteria that makes sence for perk or not is effect on the game. If the LA7 does that perk it. If not dont.

[juzz]

My comparison to the Bearcat was solely on the basis of performance:

Sea level speed
Plane 1: 383mph
Plane 2: 382mph
Top speed
Plane 1: 421mph at 20,500ft
Plane 2: 421mph at 19,700ft
Initial climbrate
Plane 1: 4550fpm
Plane 2: 4570fpm
Service ceiling
Plane 1: 37,064ft
Plane 2: 38,700ft
Powerloading at s/l
Plane 1: 3.85lb/hp
Plane 2: 4.13lb/hp
Powerloading at ~15,000ft
Plane 1: 4.85lb/hp
Plane 2: 5.31lb/hp
Wingloading
Plane 1: 37.7lb/ft^2
Plane 2: 40.3lb/ft^2

So, which one is the F8F-1, and which one is the La-7?  

OT: What would be the chances of there ever being a Yak-3 with VK 107 in AH(as a perk)? How fast was it - 447mph at like 10k or something? Ow!

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Jimdandy]

Relax guys. Thanks for the info Verm. I was just looking at a book I had stored away and it agrees with your production  figure on the La-7. I have a couple of quick reference books I keep out that only showed figures for the La-5 so I wrongly assumed that the La-7 was produced in very small number because of the lack of reference. I say add it to the main arena unperked. It's not a monster and it was produced in numbers. It will be a great performer at the alt we normally fly at but not any better than the N1K I bet.

Edit: Well as I was typing this it looks like there's some new info. Well someone comment on juzz's post.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Wardog]

Personaly i think only Jets need to be perked. At the 1st call of a sited Perk plane, i will be hunting it down with a mob    

Perk this...

La-7R

RD units were installed in the small fairing under the tailplane (which was raised to provide the room for engine). Rocket fuel consisted of 90l kerosene and 180l H2NO3. Fuel tanks for 'native' piston engine could hold in this configuration only 215kg of gasoline.

     

Ill add a site for VVS link, interesting info.
 http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/lavochkin.html


Dog out........

[This message has been edited by Wardog (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Vermillion]

Juzz,

The Me109G10 is easily the fastest plane (and best climber and accelerator) in AH by 15mph, Compare its 452mph to the next best P-51's 437mph max.  Should we perk the G10? Oh wait its weakness is its lack of high speed handling.

The P-51D is the fastest overall plane in AH, and has the best high speed handling, should we perk it? Oh wait, its weakness is that it turns like a brick.

The Typhoon is the fastest plane at Sea Level being 13mph faster than even the P-51D, plus it has x4 Hispano's. It also has great climb and acceleration at low altitudes.  Perk it? No it has very poor performance at altitude.

So why should we perk the La7? It has very defineable weakness's just like the rest. Its definitely not a world beater like the Spit XIV that does everything well.

Yes it would tie the Typhoon as the fastest plane at SL, with a max speed of 380mph, but its altitude speed and performance is comparitively dismal. Only 410ish at around 15k (numbers from memory). Its turn performance is very middle of the road, being about the same as the Yak-9U or the P-51D. And it has average to poor visibility out of that canopy.  Plus it has only 2 or 3 low relatively low velocity/lethality 20mm cannons, with a small ammo load.  Anything above 10k and it starts to become a very average late war fighter.

I still honestly don't see why you think it should be perked. Its not any better than many of our already "un-perked" rides we use every day.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Zigrat]

if it wasnt perked i wouldnt object, but it would definitely have a comparatively low ENY value (like 15 or something)


just because for exmple to compare it to (example) a f4u-1d with ENY of 20 the la7 is lots better.

dont get me wrong i wanna fly la7 in 1.06. But i dont like flying mass amrket airplanes or flavors of the month, so i want it to remain relatively unpopular.

[GRUNHERZ]

ripsnort was right in that oter thread, its incredible just how mediocre the plane a guy wants in AH becomes on the BBS, its damn funny  

Go on verm with your 380mph deck 3 cannon armed plane that climbs and rolls like mad yep i feel sorry for u when u are forced to fly that awful piece of toejam yep

[Spatula]

 

This upgrade is very similar to the differences between the P-51B/C and the P-51D.

Actually, the B/C model was 3 MPH faster than the P51-D and was lighter, so it climbed and turned marginally better too. But only had 4 .50cal MGs.

Bring on the La-7 unperked. It may well be my mainstay ride over the p51.

[Ice]

I'm sick of hearing about this perk crap, and it hasn't even arrived yet. I can't wait. Folks will be mad they can't fly a perk because of blah blah...they'll get killed by one and then they'll say blah blah.

At least I'll have something to read on the board
-=

[juzz]

Hawker Tempest Mk V Series II
 
Sea level speed
392mph
Top speed
435mph at 17,500ft
Climbrate
6.1 minutes to 20,000ft
Service ceiling
36,000ft
Powerloading at s/l
4.71lb/hp
Powerloading at altitude
6.57lb/hp at 17,000ft
Wingloading
37.75lb/ft^2
First delivery
January 1944
First combat
June 1944
Number produced
801

Oh sorry RAF guys, it's 10mph too fast and only had 3 figures made, better perk it eh?

While we're at it, you Spitfire lovers can only have the 3800fpm F.IX not the 4500fpm LF.IX - and NO you can't have the XIV, it's waaay too fast - 360mph at s/l, and a whopping 423mph at 20,000ft - we know you don't really want to climb to 25k to catch those Mustangs and G-10's...

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by juzz:
Oh sorry RAF guys, it's 10mph too fast and only had 3 figures made, better perk it eh?

Uhhh... I was under the impression that it would be perked.  So what's your point?

-- Todd/DMF

[juzz]

 

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by Zigrat:
if it wasnt perked i wouldnt object, but it would definitely have a comparatively low ENY value (like 15 or something)


just because for exmple to compare it to (example) a f4u-1d with ENY of 20 the la7 is lots better.

dont get me wrong i wanna fly la7 in 1.06. But i dont like flying mass amrket airplanes or flavors of the month, so i want it to remain relatively unpopular.

The ENY value is based more on popularity of an airframe than anything else.  The more it gets used the lower the ENY value gets.

And we all know that when a new kite is added everyone in the arena flies it for a week or two so they can see what she'll do.