Author Topic: Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!  (Read 498 times)

Offline GPreddy

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« on: January 12, 2003, 05:08:55 AM »
I have had quite a few people tell me they have trouble calibrating properly when flying a bomber and that they have given up and gone back to dive bombing. I understand why after getting a new stick over the holidays. It doesnt seem like any two sticks can be the same even when you talk about CH but especially when you mean the Microsoft Sidewinder stuff. The elevator pitch is just too sensitive to get a good calibration routine with any dependable consistency without making some changes in stick scaling. The other aspects of bomb sight calibration are covered well enough in other posts and websites but this isnt in there.

To calibrate my bomb sight I always do the following. Calibrate at the altitude airpseed and heading that I will have over the target. Once you do this you can even change altitude heading and airspeed but you have to be at that altitude airspeed and heading when you drop or you will miss. If thats not clear or you think you cant make sure of that calibrate as you approach your target. Now if you have the same problem I do with the stick being too sensitive for a good calibration do the following. Open up the clipboard and click on the setup button and then the joystick button. Here is the calibration and stick scaling window. In the upper left corner is an option selection window that drops down and will allow you to choose different axis. Open it and select pitch. This is the scaling window for that axis. In the following image you can see two example settings for pitch. The first I use for normal flying and the second for bomb sight calibration. The second setting makes the pitch axis much less sensitive to small movement. You may not be able to use precisely the same settings so make sure you practice offline or in the TA before trying it in the MA. That way you can test many different settings without worrying about the 109 on your six.

I would like to see a dual scaling option available for us online. That way you could have custom presets for bombers and GVs (tanks suffer from having overly sensitive gunner transitions too) and switch between them in the game without having to open the clipboard. As far as I kow there isnt a joystick with a dual rate setting but it sure would be nice.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2003, 05:12:03 AM by GPreddy »

Offline GPreddy

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2003, 05:09:36 AM »
Somehow the image got dropped.

Offline Revvin

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2003, 05:11:48 AM »
Quote
As far as I kow there isnt a joystick with a dual rate setting but it sure would be nice.


You can re-program any axis on the HOTAS Cougar on the fly so you can make it more or less sensitive to suit your needs.

Offline GPreddy

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2003, 05:13:25 AM »
Can you set it up so all you have to do is hit a button? If so send me one :)

Offline Revvin

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2003, 05:20:09 AM »
Yes you can and no I won't send you one

Offline Esme

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Pardon?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2003, 07:59:25 AM »
Sorry, I don't understand your problem - what on Earth has elevator pitch got to do with anything relating to calibrating your bombsight?!?!

What are you expecting - old-style laser-bombing accuracy?  If so you're likely to be disappointed (which isn;t to say that that degree of accuracy is impossible with thr new system, just harder to obtain)

Flying at a set altitude, or close enough thereto isn't hard, and neither is flying at a set speed, so long as you are sensible enough to fly at reduced MPs so that if you need it, you have a little throttle in hand (HT, PLEEEEEAAASSE bring in engine overheating for buffs if they are left on maximum throttle for too long!)

Bombing is a skill, like learning deflection shooting, or indeed JABOing or even dive-bombing (though IMO that latter is the easiest of the lot to acquire). All it needs is some practice. The downside is that by the very nature of things, it takes longer to get lots of practice at level-bombing than just about anything else except torpedo-bombing.

What'd be really nice would be if we were given two different types of bombsight, and in cases where it was appropriate, the ability to choose between types before takeoff. The current system is an odd mix of a vector and a tachometric sight (calibrates like using a tachometric sight to bomb with; and is then used like using a vector sight to bomb with. The old system was like a "magic" vector sight that always accurately predicted where the bombs would actually fall. A proper vector sight would need you to dial in altitude and speed and wind corretion, then you drop when the cross-hairs move over the target.  A proper tachometric sight you dial in the same as for a vector sight, but you hold the crosshairs on the target during the run-in, and an automatic system releases the bombs at the right moment. In either case, if you've either dialled in inaccurate info or havent flown your plane according to the data youve dialled in, then your bombs will fall off target by some amount over and above the inherent inaccuracy in the system).

I really can't see as the elevator pitch comes into it anywhere there, m'dear - in what way am I being obtuse? You're not under the misapprehension that you need to be absolutely PRECISELY on the mark in order to bomb acceptably well, are you? The higher the altitude you drop from the less percentage effect a slight variance in speed will have (though it will always have SOME effect), and minor variations in altitude may have no noticable efffect at all.  

The only other thing I can think of is if you're trying to pick off targets with individual bombs - if so, forget it. Thats as sillyas trying to get fighter kills by shooting one MG bullet or cannon shell and hoping to get a kill. A very few exceptional aces might be able to manage that trick, or come close to it, but most folks need to send a stream of shells. Similarly, you should be dropping a stick of bombs, not individual ones.  Anyone trying to drop single bombs on flak guns using the bombsight has my best wishes, but you're (thankfully) almost certainly doomed to failure (even if only because you arent likely to survive long enough to do much damage that way)

I'd also add that I've always used ramped up settings on all axes aside from roll in just about every flight sim I've flown - because the default flatline settings make planes almost unflyably twitchy in most sims, it seems.  But even so - I cant see what on earth fine elevator control has to do with your problems, m'dear... maybe I'm having a particularly noodle-headed day?

Offline BenDover

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Re: Pardon?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2003, 08:59:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Esme
The only other thing I can think of is if you're trying to pick off targets with individual bombs - if so, forget it. Thats as sillyas trying to get fighter kills by shooting one MG bullet or cannon shell and hoping to get a kill. A very few exceptional aces might be able to manage that trick, or come close to it, but most folks need to send a stream of shells. Similarly, you should be dropping a stick of bombs, not individual ones.  Anyone trying to drop single bombs on flak guns using the bombsight has my best wishes, but you're (thankfully) almost certainly doomed to failure (even if only because you arent likely to survive long enough to do much damage that way)



i can do that

ok, so it was a hurri D and i was about 50 yards off his tail, lol:D



ps, i use a side winder, and i have no probs with the sight

Offline fullback

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2003, 10:53:32 AM »
To calibrate speed precisely, the bombsite is pushed forward, zoomed to a reference point, then held over the point while pressing the 'y' key. Fine pitch control is necessary to hold the reference point under the crosshair.

The only thing I find really missing from the current bombsite is a heading indicator. It was a necessary (and available) parameter for a bombadier's calculations and preparations to intersect the IP.

Just a suggestion Esme...  posting something so adamant can be embarrassing when you find out that you are so completely wrong.

You could have simple asked: "Why are pitch settings important for bombing?"

Offline ALF

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2003, 11:05:06 AM »
Stick scaling can help because you can scale stick movements so presice aiming can be easier.  I use an exponentioal/sin wave scaling so the initial movements cause only small changes making presice movement easy.  

Check out my bombing tutorial for help, I typically hit 90% of the time from 20K, and can take out a medium or small field wiht 1 b17.

Offline Easyscor

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stick scaling
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2003, 03:11:46 PM »
I also scale the pitch, roll and rudder to a sign wave configuration.  My first two or three sliders look very much like GPreddy's bomber version and the last one or two look like his fighter version.  I tend to over control fighters anyway and the sign curve helps keep my speed up as well as helping to make bombsight calibration much easier.  It helps in other aiming situations as well.

Scaling all the sliders at the top is just as good for fighters if you don't yank the stick around.  Very little input is needed to make flight adjustments and some people prefer it, and do very well.
Easy in-game again.
Since Tour 19 - 2001

Offline brendo

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2003, 03:23:30 PM »
You are really flying off the handle for no reason there ESME. You need to fine pitch control to calibrate the bomb sight. Some sticks are very 'twitchy' or sensitive.

I can reccoment the settings shown above and use that style of pitch cotrol on both Sidewinder and F16 sticks.

Offline brendo

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2003, 03:24:35 PM »
With the exception that the final settings go all the way to 100% control though.

Offline Suave

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2003, 03:45:14 PM »
I have a MS pre pro and I can drop single bombs on hangers from 20k . But then I don't use a J-curve stick scale . My stick is scaled 100% all the way across .

Offline Sixpence

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2003, 03:52:35 PM »
Top picture for normal flying, bomber lower pic?
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline GPreddy

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Calibrating the Bomb Sight - We Need Dual Rates!
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2003, 04:55:24 PM »
Exactly sixpence. As a few others suggested peaking the end of pitch throw may be necessary it just depends on how your individual stick responds. I have owned several ch sticks and numerous sidewinder versions and none of them react the same.

Esme from your post you cant tell that you have ever calibrated in your life and your bombing accuracy says about the same thing.