Iraq, N. Korea kick Iran out of Axis of Evil

[GRUNHERZ]

What would you do with the North Korea crisis weazel? Except post that you dont like what Bush is doing, of course...

[weazel]

And let the two Koreas deal with their own problems.

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What would you do with the North Korea crisis weazel? Except post that you dont like what Bush is doing, of course...

[Toad]

Originally posted by GScholz
losing a spy plane and the execution of two US officers seem "minor" considering this was 1969,....

However I never argued that the US were the ONLY western country helping Israel with its nuclear program.....
 

1. I submit to you that it was not a "minor" incident to those on board or to those that were hacked to death, nor was it minor to their wives and families.

It was a legitimate "causus belli" should the US have chosen to go to war. Wars have, in fact, been started over far less. However, we did not choose to do so.

2. No the issue was US violation of the Non-proliferation treaty. When GATES was asked for an example YOU produced the US/Israel connection.

I merely pointed out that a) it wasn't the US that started the Israelis down the road to membership in the "nuclear club".

In fact, NUMEROUS countries have helped them. In January 1992, Israel's Technion University procured two "parallel" computers capable of reaching supercomputer speeds from the U.K. company Meiko Scientific Ltd.. The sale effectively circumvented U.S.- and Japanese-imposed restrictions for countries that had not signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT).

The US sold them supercomputers a bit later, after this had already happened.

So it would seem there's a lot of "egg on the face" going around, eh?

MANY nations have "broken" the NPT, eh?

Another example?

Iraq ratified the Non-Proliferation Treaty on October 29, 1969, pledging not to manufacture nuclear weapons and agreeing to place all its nuclear materials and facilities under IAEA safeguards.

The Osiraq research reactor was unusually large and was therefore capable of irradiating uranium specimens to produce significant quantities of plutonium.

Who sold Iraq this reactor? Go ahead.. guess.

For that matter where did the North Koreans get their graphite-moderated reactor?

Where did Pakistan get a significant portion of its nuclear technology and where has Pakistan gotten it's missile delivery technology for these weapons?

So the US is the Great Satan in all this NPT stuff?

Please.

There's more than enough mud to sling; no one will emerge clean and shiny in their white angel's robes.

It's realpolitik, as Kissinger used to say.

[Toad]

Originally posted by weazel
And let the two Koreas deal with their own problems.

Mark your calendars. Weazel and I agree on something.

I'd go even farther.

Give 'em six months notice (or shorter if they're comfortable with less) that we're leaving, with a solemn promise that we absolutely are NOT coming back. Ever.

Take every scrap of US equipment with us and go as fast as possible on the day the 6 months are up.

After we're clear, cut off all food aid to North Korea and redistribute it to countries that are actually trying to improve and become part of the world community. That list would be plenty long enough.

Sit back and watch "peace and brotherhood" break out on the 38th parallel.

It'll be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius all over again.

[sling322]

Am I the only one that finds a missile with the name "Dong" amusing?

[Hangtime]

Henh.

We shoulda Nuked Paris a long time ago. Bastards have been selling the technology to build these reactors to anybody with cash for 40 years.

I'd rather not see us just toss the towel in in South Korea.. lets give 'em nukes.

While were at it, hand the Japs the same weapons. Then lets nudge 'em toward N. Korea and China with a big wink.

Let 'em all fry.

[Toad]

Nah, Hang. Wouldn't want to proliferate.

Besides, it's what they want, right? US out of South Korea; not needed.

I agree. Make 'em happy, I say.

[10Bears]

Toad your and weazels suggestion is the dumbest thing I've ever read..

[GRUNHERZ]

I disagree!

[Toad]

Well, 10Bears, do tell us your solution.

Are you one of the NK apologists?

"The Great Satan made me do it!"  - Kim Jong Il

[10Bears]

Hold the horses ear Toad he won’t kick or bite ya. I know it’s very unpleasant for a new horse but to break him in you need to let him know who’s boss. As long as you got a good hold of his ear, he can’t bite ya. Do you know what whispering is?... you talk to the horse the same time you got his ear.. let him know your not there to kill him.. you just want to ride him. This is an animal your talking to, your tone of voice, your movements are all very important. Once the horse is calmed down a bit, you can introduce a blanket... after that... slowly... offer the horse a saddle.. the way you act is important if you want the horse to accept it or not... The people that yell and beat a horse take a much longer time to train.

The US forces in SK are there not just to protect the South Koreans but vital financial US interests in the Pac Rim area. Anybody want to cause trouble in Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong.. though part of China still plenty of business interests there. United States absolutely must have a large military presents in the far east..

The idea of pulling out of Korea is so mind numbingly bizarre I wonder if you followed through on thinking about the consequences of this action... For starters how long would it take for NK’s 10 million man army to stove into SK?... weeks.. no hours. Instead of a poor North Korea you end up with a very rich unified Korea under communist banner.  Or China.. seeing how America skidadalled.. Behooves them to move into Taiwan. For that matter how about the rest of the world?... Headline: U.S confronts North Korea nuclear crisis by retreating..

This crisis could have been avoided had the adults in charge not have acted like 5 yr olds a lil horse whispering could have gone a long way. My solution?... Yeah, Americans over the age of 18 should take a more proactive approach to politics.. Read up on prospective leaders then vote for the guy who is right for the job.. For example, a legacy student who drank a fifth of Jack Daniels and a case of beer every day for 23 years might not be the best choice for President of the United States.

[Toad]

My goodness, what an arrogant, imperialistic, typical American attitude you have, Mr. Bears!

Likening a sovereign nation like North Korea to an unbroken horse? To be ultimately ridden by its master? What an imperialistic allegory! Tsk, tsk.

The US absolutely does NOT need forces to protect our "vital interests" in the Pacific Rim.  Our "vital interests" are trade. You'll note we trade extensively with China. VERY extensively. I don't think they trade with us because we have a forces in the area.

Sovereign nations can and should defend themeselves. They don't need our miltary as "tripwire" guarantees.

After a starving... oh, wait.. Gates has enlightened me... after the comfortably fed North Koreans cross the border to reunite in loving harmony with their long lost brothers all will be well. Just look a what a worker's paradise the North itself has become. It shouldn't take long to transform the South into a similar paradise. And then we can trade with them, just as we do with both China and South Korea.

Taiwan? It WAS a part of China you know. Just like Hong Kong. Just exactly how would US forces in the region change anything the Chinese decided to do in Hong Kong. Similarly, the Taiwan issue is already concluded whether we choose to accept it or not.

How many Americans would support all out war with China to "save" Taiwan? How many Americans would support it after a Chinese nuke strike on a CV battle group? Taiwan belongs to China. It's only a matter of China deciding when to exercise it's option to reclaim it.

This present crisis may have been avoidable. However, the proper actions would have to have been taken in '94 within the "Agreed Framework" to truly dismantle the NK nuclear weapons program and monitor compliance. But that didn't happen, as we see.

So, indeed, one must be careful who one votes for, musn't one?

[whgates3]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
whgates3:

Why do you liberals always have a tendency to discount the evils of a communist regime especially when it is in some current conflict with America?  It's nuts.

dont pigeonhole me as a liberal just because i dont like junior.
i dont call you a neonazi just because you are a croatian w/ jagdgeschwader54's name.  there are plenty of perfectly good reasons to distrust & dislike the present administration, even for nonhippies

[GRUNHERZ]

Fair enough whgates:

But still even if you dont like Bush why downplay the misdeeds of NK...

10Bears:

Yes Bush it fault for this. In fact it was all his idea that NK go stary builiding nuclear weapons just after 1994 treaty, 1994-2000 all years during which Geaorge Bush was president.

[Toad]

Gates, it's posts of yours like the 01-19-2003 12:17 AM one in this thread that make me consider a pigeonhole for you.