A Little IRaqi History

[Ping]

Time to get Nasty.....And the US ally in the form of ISRAEL is in disregard of HOW many UN slaps on the wrist? Oh please do tell me that you know about those...right?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Yes I do... Israel also proved how reserved it can be while under attacks- twice in the past 9 years.

Iraq has proven it's an aggressor and will go on the offensive first.

If the US dropped support to Israel, what do you think would happen in that region?
-SW

[MWHUN]

Iraq brought the current state of affairs on itself by the invasion of Kuwait and continued UN violations.  

Had it been a good little rouge dictatorship without invading another sovereign state it could have operated indefinitely without the present US pressure.

[Ping]

May 1990 - At Arab summit Saddam accuses Gulf states of waging economic war against Iraq. The Iraq economy has been devastated by the war. Iraq had borrowed billions to wage war against Iran. Price of oil was down because Gulf states were dumping oil on world market. Kuwait was slant drilling with American equipment into Iraqi oilfields. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia at behest of U.S. demanded immediate repayment of loans to Iraq.


Kuwait was slant drilling with American equipment into Iraqi oilfields. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia at behest of U.S. demanded immediate repayment of loans to Iraq.
Little bit of intrigue there on the US part i guess.

[Ping]

Israel reserved?

Press Release
GA/SPD/196
During its consideration of the Special Committee’s report, the observer for Palestine said that, in light of recent tragic developments and the deterioration of the situation in the occupied Palestinian territory, including Jerusalem, the Special Committee’s mandate continued to be appropriate and timely. The Israeli army’s excessive and indiscriminate use of force against Palestinian civilians in the past five weeks had resulted in the willful killing of more than 150 Palestinians and injury to thousands. It was the belief of many that such a gross violation of human rights might amount to war crimes.


This is from the UN website
http://www.un.org
Do a search on Resolutions against Israel and afterwards tell me they are reserved.
And then explain to me why Israel is allowed to defy them and Saddam is not.  This has been on ongoing Two faced position from the US Government for decades.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Israel had also been dealing with palestinian meat bombs.

Of course, it's easy to sit back in relative safety and criticise them for their actions (and this is entirely different from what Saddam did to Kuwait) when dealing with terrorists.

I can't say it's the right thing to do, or what should have been done... but they have been essentially fighting a war for survival against their neighbors for a long time.

US pulls out of Israel, Israel is on it's own and gets demolished by the surrounding countries.

It may be "two faced", but Israel wouldn't exist if it weren't for US support.
-SW

[Ping]

Excuse me but these meat bombs were not always the case. I gave you the directions to the UN. Those resolutions were happening a long time before the meat bomb parade became fashionable. You are sitting in Reasonable comfort saying to go after Saddam is prevention.
In your laws is it JUST to kill countless numbers of people because they MIGHT do something? Sheet thats tantamount to war crimes.
The UN, Russia and a number of other countries are saying that this can be resolved through diplomacy. So Why is it that the Bush administration feels the need to go in and remove him from power?
Never have I said that the US should abandon Israel, They have a right to exist, but does that permit them to ignore the UN and international Law. Does that give America the Moral highground when they ignore human right violations(not just Israel I'm talkin bout here) just because they are alies?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Excuse me, but those meat bombs were the cause of Israel killing Palestinians.

That's terrific though that Russia and the UN think this can be solved with diplomacy. If it can be, I'd be ecstatic... but diplomacy AND the UN hasn't been working for the past 9 years... think Saddam's had a change of heart?

And that is exactly why the Bush Admin believes the only way to stop Saddam and ensure that he has no WMDs as he is supposed to not have is by going in, taking him out of power, and examining every square inch of that country.

I haven't been sitting in reasonble comfort or safety for a year now... I work in Washington, DC.. the illusion of safety left me long ago.

Of course what's even funnier is that you said this: "In your laws is it JUST to kill countless numbers of people because they MIGHT do something?"

We already have reasonable cause with the newly found 11 warheads. We've had reasonable cause when Saddam couldn't prove he destroyed half of his WMD inventory. Saddam even proved he would invade a neighboring country.

This is beginning to sound like something that happened 60 years ago...
-SW

[Ping]

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0m6k0

The first suicide bombing in Israel occurred on April 16, 1993 (before that, there had been suicide attacks directed against IDF soldiers in Lebanon). In the years 1995-1996, a murderous wave of suicide attacks erupted in Israel.

The reasons for the Israeli reactions before this is????

Still looking . will edit more time frames.

Suicide and Other Bombing Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles
(September 1993)
Apr 6, 1994 - Eight people were killed in a car-bomb attack on a bus in the center of Afula. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Israel has ignored resolutions from what date?

And yes that is the Official Israeli Web Site.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Hey, I know you can do the math.. cause I said "in the past 9 years"
-SW

[Ping]

So Un and Diplomacy havnt worked in the last 9 years.
What does History say about Gunboat Diplomacy. Because that is what Bush is doing, Do it my way or I will kill you. Who is to tell Bush that his way is wrong? His Dad?

You praise him for the Diplomatic route being used with NK, but with anyone else you are saying it hasnt woked for the last 9 years. Inconsistant.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

I praised the diplomatic route with NK?

Nope, not me. I don't think an invasion is a good idea in NK. I don't think an invasion in Iraq is a good idea.

But I can see that in the case of Saddam, the only thing he understands is a nice .50cal between the eyes.

For the past 9 years nothing has worked with Saddam.

N. Korea was told in 1994 to keep it's reactor turned off. It wasn't until recently (1 year) that they began messing around with it, and admitted to actually having nuclear weapons.

What's so inconsistant? That for the past 9 years nothing has worked with Saddam, or that for the past year, nothing has worked with Kim?
-SW

[Dowding]

What a disgustingly sordid affair the Iraq situation is.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Oh but lets not forget this lil fact either:

Kim has come outright and told us he has nuclear capabilities and has a desire to continue down this road.

OTOH, Saddam has been desperately trying to hide this fact and even when confronted by the US, and the UN, he continues to feed them nothing but lies and deciet.
-SW

[weazel]

I before E except after C.

Hmmmm, lies and deceit.....sounds familiar.

Where's the proof Iraq has nukes...or had anything more than a few empty chemical artillery shells?

Chimpy kind of reminds me of a line from the movie Gladiator....

"He will give them death, and they will love him for it."