Author Topic: Gitmo bay  (Read 1445 times)

Offline fd ski

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2003, 10:15:06 AM »
VS31 TOPCATS ALL THE WAY BABY !!!!

E4, 4 years here ;)

Quote

troops are more educated and politically savy than ever.


You must be talking about different navy then.
Half the dumbshits i came out of the bootcamp with couldn't read on a elementary school level :)
Heck, one guy couldn't dress himself !!!

Offline lazs2

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2003, 10:18:21 AM »
Dowding.. we should have paved the north... they wouldn't have any place to hide then.
lazs

Offline X2Lee

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Re: Awwww cweamo...
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2003, 11:43:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
Does it bother you that much that people find the topics I post on interesting...or do you just need a little attention?


Do you really think most people find your topics interesting?
I think your ego is inflated.

I suggest a poll...

Who thinks weazels topics are interesting?

Offline weazel

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Contradiction
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2003, 11:53:35 AM »
"Today its guys who are college students looking for tuition deferment that are serving."

And then:

"The U.S. has quite a few low quality NCOs running around screaming, probably not knowing which end of an M16 is up."

Offline whgates3

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2003, 05:35:51 PM »
i know a lot of nitwit college students

Offline rc51

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2003, 05:43:25 PM »
weazel where you born this stupid ? or did it take years of training to get this dumb?
LOL what a MORON!!

Offline Thrawn

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2003, 05:54:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Oh yes, everyone was very pleased with the military.  This is why people were spitting, throwing urine, and even shooting returning combat veterans.  


Sorry, who exactly was the national embarrassment again?

Offline Hangtime

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2003, 08:34:14 PM »
Hiya Dowding!

Quote
Elaborate, Hangtime. I've heard this many times. I've heard that the stockpiles of SAMs in Hochi Minh City were off-limits until they were placed in their launchers, but what other changes would have been made? Perhaps a more ruthless treatment of the local population? Genuinely interested.


Fair question. It's a matter of objectives. Approach the objectives from a purely military standpoint and the soultion is crystal clear.

1. Destroy the enemys ability to make war. Destruction of Haiphong's and HongGai's port facilities, the total blockade of the Harbors, the destruction of the rail lines from china, aggresive continous reduction of the countrys ability to aid and succor the Viet Cong.

Why didn't we? Politics. The target list was controlled exclusively by the White House.

2. Destroy the infrastructure of command and control. Utter destruction of all road junctions, bridges, damns, factories and  government facilities of all types.

Why didn't we? same answer.

3. Use of neighboring countrys as 'refuges'... from a military standpoint Laos and Cambodia were safe havens for the NVA and the Vietcong. The Military correctly demanded that these nations deny the enemy use of their territory, their inability to do so should have resulted in the US's armed pursuit with impunity into those havens.

Why didn't we? same answer.

4. Invasion. Having reduced the enemys effectiveness and failing a settlement, we should have invaded.. when your standing in Hanoi with your boot on Uncle Ho's neck it's kinda hard to concieve that the war could continue.

Thanks to the most screwed up set of Foreign Policy decisons recorded in the annals of statecraft we instead wound up with our militarys hands tied by an asinine ROE. The Vietnam War was conducted by politicans with the same effect and result as pissing on a forrest fire. And we got our dicks burned. The politicans didn't even get singed.

Dowding... I'm certain the world remembers the US pulled out of Vietnam, whats unfortunate is that the world thinks our Military lost.  Our Army was not there when South Vietnam fell.

Consider.. From the Ia Drang Valley to Khe Sanh to Tet and Hue to An Loc.. we won every single engagement with the NVA. Every single one. The Military did not lose in Vietnam. Our politicans did.

Sadly, now even the population of this country believes the Military let our nation down. The onus of the fall of Vietnam rests squarely on US foriegn Policy. Not on US military Forces.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Hangtime

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2003, 08:44:15 PM »
ummm davidpt40; I'd love to debate your opinion of my comrades in arms in person.

Date, time, location; please.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Toad

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2003, 09:10:33 PM »
Yep, Hang. Nicely summed up.

Particularly Tet.

That battle was a huge loss for the VC. They jumped off on 17 January with some stunning early success due to surprise. The fight lasted through most of February though. And it ain't over till it's over.

And they got their clock cleaned by the time it was over.

In Hue alone, by Feb 25th there were ~ 500 dead US and ARVN  with 75% of those ARVN. VC dead were on the order of 16 for each Allied death. A 16 to 1 K/D and somehow the VC are seen as the winners?

When the Tet fighting ended in late February, the "local" VC forces throughout South VietNam were decimated and the North took on the burden of fighting with "regulars".

The US forces.. draftees and all... and the ARVN had made the "locals" basically combat ineffective.

However, the VC did beat Johnson. He quit.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline milnko

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2003, 09:40:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
second class after 8 years? what the hell did you do?
I made E5 after only 3 years, then got a re-enlistment bonus to re-up, along with a 1000 other guys in my field (Jet Engine Mechanic) for Reagan's 600 ship Navy, then due to my rate being "over-manned" due to cutbacks and no 600 ship fleet, I stayed an E5 for the next 5 years.

Offline milnko

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2003, 10:45:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski
VS31 TOPCATS ALL THE WAY BABY !!!!


I beg to differ Ski... VS32 MAULERS ALL THE WAY!!!

Shipmate! :D

Offline SaburoS

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2003, 01:05:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rc51
weazel where you born this stupid ? or did it take years of training to get this dumb?
LOL what a MORON!!


ROFL!! If you're going to insult one's intelligence, the least you could do is to show that you have a grasp of the English language higher than that of your average sixth grader.
:rolleyes:
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Dowding

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2003, 03:07:04 AM »
Thanks for the reply Hangtime/Toad. Interesting. So why did they have such a restrictive ROE - was it to avoid a war with China? Didn't the administration believe the High Command in its assessment of the situation? Seems like such a waste of lives and time - at least these days governements are a little more cautious as to where they put their troops.

I'm just glad Wilson kept Britain out of Vietnam. Perhaps he saw what a waste of resources it was - although I think it was an abhorrant thing to the Labour at the time, and it was more an internal political thing.

As for losing the war - I think a war is more than just a series of battles or series of campaigns, it's a strategic objective delivered by force. Ultimately, if you fail to meet the strategic objective, you lose the war. I don't doubt the US military was capable of winning if it was given the freedom to do so.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline lord dolf vader

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Gitmo bay
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2003, 03:44:53 AM »
wow thanks that is amazing,