Author Topic: Tiger armor?  (Read 501 times)

Offline JB42

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Tiger armor?
« on: January 18, 2003, 08:22:28 PM »
I was in a gv battle the other day and to my surprise and glee, i managed to flank a tiger and come up right on his 6. I pulled up right behind him, under d100 and fired my AP into the engine compartment. Nothing! I waited for the reload and fired again. Nothing! As i was waiting for the third round to be loaded, i saw his turret start to turn. He must have went into the pintle and located me. Kaboom, chunk, chink. Third round of 75mm AP into his arse. Nothing! Turret still swinging around and no visable smoke. Ok, im not panicking, but feeling a little uneasy. Four rounds has to kill him. Nothing! Just as i unload my fifth AP into him, his turret stops pointed right at me. Nothing! Now I say and then i do it. He fires, one loud ping and im in the tower. Seems the tigers rear armor is not modelled correct. Of course thats an assumption, but im sure others can post similar incidents. Just wondering if the is an issue or just bad luck?
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Offline Pongo

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2003, 09:27:12 PM »
You are correct. The tiger couldnt take 75mm L48 rounds in the rear. But I have found when you get in a buggy engagment in armour..move your aim point arround. For some reason it helps.

Offline Blue Mako

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2003, 11:29:18 PM »
Funny, my tiger dies or loses turrets to single pings from panzers all the time.  I have also shot multiple AP rounds into pzrs from my tiger at less than 1000yds only to see no effect.

GV armour modeling is still a bit bugged in my opinion.

Offline BenDover

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2003, 11:34:45 AM »
always aim for the turret, then shoot its engine

Offline bj229r

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2003, 08:32:39 PM »
As i can tell..easiest place to kill tiger is dead on front..side seems far tougher......go figger
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Offline maxtor

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2003, 09:40:14 AM »
I have disabled tigers with my M8, both engine and turret.  So there is something else at work here in your case jb42.   I suspect connection issues and sometimes bullets you see hit, do not register as hittign on the other player by the time the net sorts it out.

This comes up often, probably in aircraft too, but in aircraft you have many bullets and can afford lose a round here and there, but  in a GV you are most often shooting 1 bullet and losing 1 bullet is everything.

I have "hit" (on my end anyway) m3's with as many as 4 37 AP at very close range and not even damaged him - and he gets in his 50 cal and kills me.   I have also killed them with one round at longer ranges.  

I feel the issue here isn't the damage model but whether the game recognizes your round as hitting or not, and where.

Offline SKurj

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2003, 10:57:31 AM »
use HE on M3's... much more effective...


SKurj


helloooo

Offline maxtor

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2003, 01:01:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj
use HE on M3's... much more effective...


SKurj


helloooo



Which tends to make me beleive it is again a connection thing - in this case as to where the round hits.  Perhaps the flight time of the round is not the same on both front ends, where a HE round has a wider effect hit window than an AP round.

Offline SlapShot

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2003, 01:37:53 PM »
There are so many GV anomolies, its hard to keep track of.

I rolled a Tiger the other night and came upon a panzer and an osty peeking above the crest of a hill (just the turrets showing).

First instinct is to take out the panzer. Ranged him in at 1.2 and continued to shoot 6 rounds right thru his turret. No damage at all, it was like he was a mirage. So, I sight in the osty right next to him (maybe 20 yards to his left) and let one go. BIG flash, turret out and smoking. One more shot he is dead. Turn back to the panzer and continue to shoot him with absolutly no effect at all.

He then sights me in and kills me with 2 shots ... :(

Since the introduction of the Tiger, GV battles are becoming more popluar, and I hope that HT takes some time to investigate all these anomolies and squash them.

HT .. could the ZOOM be the culprit.  Are the physical vehicle outlines (where damage or contact/impact occur) being skewed by the zooming in and out ?
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Offline SKurj

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2003, 09:17:50 PM »
An AP round will go through an M3... likely leaving a neat (37mm) 40-50mm hole on both sides...

Whereas the explosive of the HE would be more likely do some real damage..

SKurj

Offline Shiva

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2003, 09:24:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj
An AP round will go through an M3... likely leaving a neat (37mm) 40-50mm hole on both sides...


That's why you aim so that the engine block helps slow the round down...

Offline Achttag

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2003, 06:30:08 AM »
For those that might be interested in a real life account of what a Tiger was actually able to withstand:

"On 10 and 11 February 1943 in an attack on the collective farm west of Sserernikowo, Kampfgruppe Sander faced greatly superior forces. The Tigers in the lead platoon drew most of the enemy fire to themselves. The fire came mostly from the right flank and the front from tanks, anti-tank guns, and infantry with anti-tank rifles, all opening fire at the longest range possible."

"At the beginning of the attack, my Tiger was hit on the front of the superstructure by a 7.62 cm anti-tank gun. The track links, which had been fastened to the superstructure front plate by a steel bar, were shot away. We heard a a dull clang and felt a slight jolt inside the Tiger. At the same time, we observed many near misses striking the ground to the front and the side of the Tiger."

"Shortly thereafter, I received a hit on the commander's cupola from a 4.5 cm anti-tank gun. The brackets holding the glass vision block flew off. The block became welded tight but visibility was eliminated by the impact of the shell fragments. A second hit on the cupola knocked brackets loose from the turret ceiling. At the same time, a wave of heat and a cloud of acid smoke enveloped the crew. Two hits from 4.5 cm anti-tank shells and 15 hits from anti-tank rounds were counted on the cupola after the battle."

"The loader's hatch, somewhat stuck and therefore about half open, received several hits from anti-tank rifles which knocked some brackets off. Other rounds striking the hatch jammed the hinges so that it could be opened only with the aid of a wrecking bar after the battle."

"The enemy bathed the Tiger with machine gun fire on both days. The smoke dischargers mounted on the turret side were riddled, setting them off. This smoke filtering into the crew compartment became so thick and strong that for a short time the crew couldn't function."

"The closer the Tiger approached the collective farm, the greater the intensity of the enemy defensive fire. Each hit on the Tiger was accompanied by a sharp clang, a slight jolt, acid clouds of smoke, a shimmering yellow flash, and a detonation."

"The nerves of the crew were stretched thin. we paid no attention to hunger, thirst, or time. Even though the attack lasted over 6 hours, at the time the crew thought that only a short time has elapsed."

"After another 7.62 cm anti-tank struck the gun mantle, the brackets holding the gun snapped, the recoil cylinder began losing fluid, and the gun remained at full recoil. The shaking caused by additional hits damaged the radio, a gas tube, and the gear lever by the driver. The engine caught fire when the shield protecting the exhaust muffler was shot away, but the fire was rapidly extinguished."

"An explosive charge thrown on the top of the Tiger from the side was sensed as a dull explosion accompanied by heat and smoke enveloping the Tiger and the crew."

"We counted 227 hits from anti-tank rifle rounds, 14 hits from 5.7 cm and 4.5 cm anti-tank guns, and 11 hits from 7.62 cm guns. The right track and suspension were heavily damaged. Several road wheels and their suspension arms were perforated. The idler wheel had worked out of its mount . In spite of all this damage, the Tiger still managed to coved an additional 60 kilometers under its own power."

"The hits had caused the failure of several welded joints and caused the tank to start leaking. The tracks had received several hits, but these didn't especially hinder the Tiger's mobility."

"In conclusion, it can be said that the armor on the Tiger can withstand the most intense punishment that the enemy can deliver. The crew can head into combat secure in the knowledge that they are surrounded by sufficient armor to keep out the most determined anti-tank round."

(Leutnant Zabel (sPzAbt.503/3.Kp))

Draw your own conclusions on how our Tiger compares as you will.
Achttag
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Offline wipass

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Tiger armor?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2003, 09:46:42 AM »
It's a real pain to lose a tiger to an m16 as happened to myself recently.

It would appear to be a random anomaly, I have  taken numerous hits from panzers in a Tiger and just shrugged them off, other times it appears to be a lottery.

Being disabled and then killed by an M16 was a bit too much though.

wipass