Author Topic: Dive bombing with level bombers  (Read 1885 times)

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2003, 11:04:20 PM »
Read what I said again X2Lee. Hide in the ack? Now which is it I get accused of vulching to pad my score and now hiding in ack to stay alive. It cant be both ways. You are clueless as to how I go about things. Now tell me when was it I bragged?

Offline Flash Gordon

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2003, 01:00:14 AM »
Why not just have personal spawn limits.

So sure, an idiot could suicide a bomber to his hearts content - until he hit his personal spawn limit and then he wouldn't be able to do it anymore until his spawn limit "regenerated" or something like that.

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2003, 02:29:18 AM »
Thats a good suggestion but I dont see it happening. You have to allow people to defend their fields.

Offline Kweassa

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2003, 06:46:59 AM »
Both angle limitations and maneuver limitations sounds like a good thing to implement.

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2003, 10:59:13 AM »
Yes and they wont really solve anything anyway. The first thing that happens when a fleet starts an attack is someone comes from another sector and suicides the cruiser. With the big guns down the muscle behind the attack is defeated and then they start in on suicidal cv attacks. If the cap can hold off the attackers through the first few attempts then you may see a higher buff come in and sometimes they try to dive bomb. I think the bigger problem is the suiciders but I dont think theres a way to discourage it.

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2003, 11:04:08 AM »
Thats right! Make sure you spray all the way down! I think this rook got a little too low.

Offline paintmaw

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2003, 12:39:17 PM »
YAWN ,,  WHINER !!

Offline BigGun

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2003, 01:07:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GPreddy
I think the bigger problem is the suiciders but I dont think theres a way to discourage it.


Didn't you just put up a thread recently that described how you suicided a CV that was being hidden? So what is deal, suicide bombers are a problem if they are doing it in way you disagree with? But then it is ok if it suites your means?

Offline AKIron

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2003, 03:46:34 PM »
I always fly alone when going on a suicide mission, don't want the crew on my conscience.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2003, 04:00:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BigGun
Didn't you just put up a thread recently that described how you suicided a CV that was being hidden? So what is deal, suicide bombers are a problem if they are doing it in way you disagree with? But then it is ok if it suites your means?


You said it BigGun. If you dont know the difference you wont learn it here. Im tired of arguing with guys that cant comprehend the difference. Yes dive bombing with a lanc should be impossible. If you cant figure out why go visit a museum and see for yourself.

Offline Heinkel

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2003, 04:03:08 PM »
Quote
Yes dive bombing with a lanc should be impossible.


Even though you know it's impossible and can't be done, you still do it...nice gamer stuff :rolleyes:

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2003, 04:30:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Heinkel
Even though you know it's impossible and can't be done, you still do it...nice gamer stuff :rolleyes:


You have an astounding level of comprehension there hienkle.:rolleyes:

Offline BigGun

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2003, 05:12:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GPreddy
Yes dive bombing with a lanc should be impossible.  


Not sure who argued it was possible. Certainly not I.

Offline X2Lee

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2003, 05:33:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GPreddy
Now tell me when was it I bragged?


Sheeeesh dood if you dont know that then you are obtuse.
Called me clueless?    :D

Offline Shiva

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2003, 08:57:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well how bout just an angle switch on non dive bombers that would prohbit drops beyond a certain dive angle say 20 degrees?


Because it's not that simple, Grunherz. The problem isn't the dive angle alone, but on the geometry of the bomb bay, how the plane is maneuvering, and the design of the bomb shackles.  The B-17, which mounted its bombs on more-or-less vertical racks within a very short section of the bomber, needs to have the bombs fall perpendicular to the centerline of the bomber in order to make it out through the doors; the uppermost bombs have to fall more than six feet vertically before they leave the plane:



On the other hand, the Lancaster's bomb bay is a shallow recess running the length of the plane; bombs are slung in a single layer on the underside of the upper surface of the bay, which is only deep enough for the bay doors to close over the bombs:



Clearly, just on bomb-bay geometry, the Lancaster can drop its bombs from much more extreme attitudes than the B-17 can.

The next question depends on the way that the bomb shackles are designed. Obviously they are designed to release when the bomb falls straight away from the shackle, but depending on the design of the shackle, a release from 30° off vertical might not release properly. Virgil R. Marco Sr., 366BS Tail Gunner, 305BG, recounts an incident where his B-17 made a sudden pitch-down to avoid another aircraft that caused all but one of the 500-lb bombs they carried to release from their shackles, leaving two bombs piled up on the bottom of the bomb bay.  So it's clear that the bombs were not thatsecurely fastened in the bay, but the actual release angle limits depend severely on the mechanical layout.

Then there's the aircraft's maneuvering. A plane in a dive is experiencing different forces than one pulling out of a dive, and this applies to the bombs in its bomb bay; if a plane is pulling enough positive Gs to make the bomb path out of the bay 'vertical' relative to the bay, then the drop should function normally.

On the whole, I think that a bomber in a dive should be able to release its bombs normally if it's pulling enough positive Gs in pitch-up maneuvering to compensate for the dive angle; this could easily be reduced to a table for each bomber. Also, negative-G maneuvers should have a chance to either release bombs from their shackles or jam them so that they can't be released; this would put additional limits on a buff driver's ability to throw their plane around the sky.