Author Topic: Dive bombing with level bombers  (Read 1886 times)

Offline paintmaw

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2003, 10:20:26 PM »
I wonder why HT lets this guy rank and rave

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2003, 10:34:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by paintmaw
I wonder why HT lets this guy rank and rave


For the same reason he lets you stick around. I pay my bill. You think ht should not allow me to rank? That says something about you on several levels paint but congratulations anyway. For once you didnt repeat yourself. Its still a pitiful post and way off topic. Please refrain from repeating this mistake. The topic here is level bombers being used to dive bomb and how best to handle the guys that misuse bombers by dive bombing with them. I want to point out that I have never used a level bomber to dive bomb anything. When I attacked the fleet that knights were hiding from us I attacked from an NOE approach and then proceeded to attack while level. So biggun and hienkle are mistaken in accusing me of doing so. Since that incident happened I have twice made use of the veterans hot line to find out where the hidden fleets are and we got them back with noe attacks. So you are better off using captured cvs because anything else is just a mild nuisance (about like you paint).:D

Offline Shiva

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2003, 09:31:14 AM »
The point I was trying to make is that, without more data, simply implementing a game mechanism like "At more than 15° from level, you can't drop your bombs" ignores the variation in the design between different bombers that affects the conditions under which bombs can be released. I strongly oppose the idea of implementing restrictions on what you can do with an aircraft based on what the pilots didn't do as opposed to what they couldn't do with the plane.

We have game limits on which plane you fly, driven by an artificial mechanism intended to keep historically-rare planes rare -- but once you have the plane, there are no controls on what you do with it. If you're going to impose restrictions on how people use the planes based on what the real-world pilots did or didn't do, then you should enforce strict separation of the plane nationalities and who you can engage -- after all, FW-190s didn't fly escort for Il-2s being attacked by P-51s...

Implementing restrictions like that on aircraft is suitable for the Mission Theater, where the intent is to create a simulation of air combat during WWII, but as people have pointed out again and again, AH in the main arena is a game; the flight and damage models may be simulations of reality, but the MA itself is gamey as all hell.

If the bomb shackles on a Lancaster won't release properly if the G force on the bombs isn't within, say, 30° of perpendicular to the bomb bay, then that's a genuine mechanical limitation on how you can be maneuvering the plane when you try to drop. Changing the game so that you can't drop bombs from a Lancaster if it's more than 15° from level flight because you don't want dive-bombing Lancasters is as much an "I don't like the way you want to play" whine as Lasz's squeaking about anything that lets bombers interfere with his furballing.

Whatever mechanism gets implemented should be able to pass a realism test based on what the plane could do, not on how people used it. The best example of the difference between ability and use that I can think of is Tex Johnston's barrel-rolling the Boeing Dash-80 prototype (predecessor to the 707) -- the airlines that used the 707 didn't barrel-roll the plane, but it could perform a barrel-roll.

Offline Preon1

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Re: GPreddy's really on to something!
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2003, 11:17:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Easyscor
I love it!  Please?

I fly my level bombers into the dar coverage of the CV and risk whatever the crew is say 12 to 18  lives.

then

For balance shall we say :D if I my bombs kill GPreddy's CV before his gun position kills me, drum roll please... I get credit for killing the CVs complement of 1500 to 2500. :D :cool:  


Man I gotta agree w/ Easyscor.  Lets take it another step farther...

If I take out cities or towns, can I get credit for civilians killed?  WOW, they could display that on my score page.  It would give all of us all another top 15 to shoot for: "top Butchers of tour X"

Offline AKIron

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Re: Re: GPreddy's really on to something!
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2003, 11:22:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Preon1
"top Butchers of tour X"


LOL

We'll need subcategories women/children/cats, extra points for cats ;)
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline BigGun

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2003, 11:39:27 AM »
GPretty..

I just raised the discussion one level. I don't like dive bombing buffs that go in & suicide. Nor do I like suicide buffs that just do some low level attack on a CV.

To me the whole Suicide thing is the issue. You state dive bombing suicide buffs are dweeby, I agree.  But I would also say level Buff suicide flying is just as dweeby.

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2003, 02:37:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BigGun
GPretty..

I just raised the discussion one level. I don't like dive bombing buffs that go in & suicide. Nor do I like suicide buffs that just do some low level attack on a CV.

To me the whole Suicide thing is the issue. You state dive bombing suicide buffs are dweeby, I agree.  But I would also say level Buff suicide flying is just as dweeby.


Well I disagree because if you are stooping to hiding a cv behind the full extent of your country then all bets are off. You wont see me doing this. One thing that has really come to light recently is this hiding issue. Even for bishops it has become standard practice to turn the cv and hide it. I have seen it stop us from succeeding in an early reset several times. Why hide an asset that can be used to accomplish your goals? Even when we bishops had knights pushed two fields beyond their port there were guys taking the cv and turning it to the rear. The guys that do this dont understand what they are missing out on. The fleet battles are the best fun in the game. This is one aspect of play that ht really scored with. Everytime we bishops have a good cv fight I say something to that effect and the consensus is in agreement. So everytime you hide the fleet you are detracting from my fun and the fun of several of my countrymen. It has gotten so popular that all I have to do is secure information as to the fleets location and I know the fleet will be home soon. There are plenty of volunteers to go and get it.

I would like to see ht find a way to code a method for checking the fleets inactivity and have it return to home port if it is not used. That really seems to be the best solution.

Offline BigGun

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2003, 02:44:37 PM »
I agree 100% on hiding fleet issue. I think if port is captured, fleet should return to port owner after a period...or some other way to eliminate fleet hiding.

You talk as if I am hiding the fleet, never have, never will. I will gladly tell other countries where hidden fleet is, and would steer into action if have the ability.

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2003, 03:00:59 PM »
Then you have to understand the frustration of flying across the full extent of the map and attacking a fleet that is forewarned of our approach. Then there is also the probability that every perk toting dweeb in the area will up 163s to stop you since you are so close to their HQ or must pass near there. Like I said in the other "only reason to suicide" thread this is one time that it is okay because otherwise it is too risky for too many people and there is almost no chance of success.

Offline BigGun

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2003, 03:15:03 PM »
Understand the frustration & also your point.

Offline BGBMAW

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2003, 03:44:25 PM »
whaaa


i really dont see more then 1 a month (divebom)Suicide Buffs...maybe not even that...

I have divebomded in 17's before...(Desperate bunch of Gpreddys divn on  me:))   ANd if u hit ur target..CONGRADULATIONS!!!  Cause its a pain in the asss to get all ur buffs to folow in an efficient way...


So im thinkning...dam voss err preddy...dont you have somthing bettr to cry about??? Ok use a diff word then crying..but whatever

And one more thing....

So you think some guy who is dive boming his Buffs cares about his Kill Death Ratio!!!  LMFAO **edited down..i didnt want any trouble..hehhhehe

come on now..i know..maybe you need to restate that one huh?..lololo


Lotsa Love
BiGB

xoxo

"Happliy Sinking your CV's in LEVEL Fligth At 10K"    any day brotha

Do this in your Star Wars Voice........"DeathStar Aproaching"...

Ill call Preddys home "Alderon"
« Last Edit: January 21, 2003, 05:34:25 PM by BGBMAW »

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2003, 04:38:59 PM »
BGBMaw you need a nap. This response is typical of your behaviour in the main arena. I thought HT made it clear this would not be tolerated. Do you have a reading disablility?

Yes I believe it would stop some but not all suicide attacks. Certainly the MAW are guilty of suicide and I have watched it happen. You have enough members in your four (4?) squads that this is an effective tactic. It is weak and lacks the requirement of time (or skill) and I think that is precisely why you do it. Its like easy mode flying only in this case its easy mode field capture so you can hide the fleet. I really hope ht comes up with a solution so we can move on once the larger maps get here. The lemming mode and milkrun base captures are old.

Offline Heinkel

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2003, 04:41:24 PM »
What do you consider alt f4'ing when you get bounced preddy?

Offline GPreddy

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2003, 05:01:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Heinkel
What do you consider alt f4'ing when you get bounced preddy?


Lame and dweebish Hienkle. I get bounced all the time do I alt-f4? No. Do I consider your troll an insult? Yes. You should really control your mental aberrations more effectively.

Offline BGBMAW

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Dive bombing with level bombers
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2003, 05:31:45 PM »
heheh ..what response do you want?

Yes you are absoulty correct...

I agree with all of it...


But..what is this..?? Thought HT said thsi would not be tolerated??? What is tolerated??

and its 5 squads:)

AND WE never go into missions thinking SUICIDE!!!! maybe once...when you guys ram a CV on our Beach and start poring out like rats ....


And so I lack the Time and Skill??? FU

I have done more level boming from 10K and abover then you...(I havent looked at ur stats)..Just a guess cause I just moved to a new house and been unpacking while boming...

So thats not true...And Skill??>. Yes maybe compared to the "All Mighty skeels of yours" yes..but to the average Pilot in AH...i know i will hold my own...so..you take a nap.....a dirt nap:D

oh...well reading your posts im not sure..Are you saying all the MAW are unskilled and have no time or just me?? Either way you are WRONG.....

I lovingly await your Reply...


and while your at it..Show me the stats(i dont think there are any) of this "dive boming lanc " situation that is bugging you enuff to post ...

P.S. what the hell else can u do in a lanc...those things suk..they have crappy defense..Id dive to if i ever flew them..lolo


(   **edited  text--actually added..I liek Lancs..they carry a tremendous bom load and i think are bettr looking then other 4 eng heavies..but the defense they have is suicidal most of the time)**..this is a true milkrunners ride..Gee i guess we know why they only flew them on nights with no moons:)

Love BiGB
xoxo
« Last Edit: January 21, 2003, 06:55:33 PM by BGBMAW »