Sci-fi sucks...

[Dowding]

... as literature, generally. It makes entertaining films, but generally it's crap in book form.

Now, I base this opinion on reading many books as a kid - Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, Frank Herbert etc.

There's been some great sci-fi, some of my favourite books are 2001, Rendez-vous with Rama, Dune and Red Mars. Mainly because they weave contemporary issues and situations into another world - they leave you thinking a little differently than when you started reading. But there's so much trash in between the great books, I got completely turned off by it, especially when I started reading straight fiction.

Recently, I was given 'Complicity' by Iain Banks by a friend. She really enjoyed it so I checked it out. It was a superb thriller, and I couldn't put it down. So I checked out the other books he had written - and it turns out he's done alot of sci-fi. So I bought a couple of his books, in the hope they were as good as Complicity. I wasn't disappointed. 'Use of Weapons' is amazing. It's kind of lke Star Trek but without the rubbish 'non-intervention' attitude the Federation displays. 'The Culture' is one massive collective, who's members are pleasure-seeking, futuristic gadget-freaks. They have a huge spy network subverting the development of lesser worlds to achieve a happy ending and eventual membership to the 'The Culture'. Like I say, they are the anti-thesis of Picard and his lycra-clad tards.

Anyone else read Banks' stuff? Not sure if his stuff is available in the States.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Dowding
... as literature, generally. It makes entertaining films, but generally it's crap in book form.

We couldn't disagree more. The percentage of sci-fi films that are entertaining is far less than books.

[CyranoAH]

Dunno Dowding, I really loved Clarke's "Songs from Distant Earth"... I'm not a big fan of Sci-fi literature, and Asimov puts me to sleep, but there are some books definitely worth reading.

Daniel

[AKIron]

Originally posted by CyranoAH
Asimov puts me to sleep

Daniel

heretic!

[Wlfgng]

you have to go with the 'killer B's

[Dowding]

There are some great books - but Asimov's Foundation series is just a series of very dull books. Except for Prelude to Foundation, which was actually ok.

Ever read the Rama series past the first book? They are atrocious - apparently Arthur C Clarke didn't even write the latter ones.

The Dune series of books rapidly falls away in quality after the first two books (Dune is the best of the lot).

I just find alot of authors spend too much time on the sci-fi aspect, rather than getting the basics of plot and character development in place. They tend to rely on the fact that their readership is 'into' what they are writing, and become a little lazy with the writing. But I suppose you could level that at most kinds of 'serial' fiction.

Anyway, if you want to read a good book, I recommend Iain M. Banks' work, particularly 'Consider Phlebas', 'Excession', 'Against a Dark Background' and 'Use of Weapons'. His best straight books, are 'Complicity', 'The Wasp Factory' and 'The Crow Road'.

[bounder]

Dowding I'm chuffed that you are into Banks.

Oh Man, Iain.M.Banks the Sci Fi Author makes no bones about his stuff being space opera, but boy can he make worlds leap off the page.

With a breathtaking disregard for humans, a great many of his books are set in the universe dominated by the culture, a loose hegemony of humans and minds. The minds run the show, humans are just for literary interest really. His skill at presenting the reader with unimaginable vistas in their mind's eye is admirable, but is as nothing to the effect his writing has when he puts you in the mind of a drone (an intelligent droid) at the begining of Excession. The whole chapter covers about 2 seconds of battle, but lasts for 30 pages - you really feel like you have b

You gotta get into Excession, The player of Games, Look to windward, Feersum Enjinn (not a culture novel but v.good). Use of weapons, consider phlebas etc were his earlier SF books, and he's a lot more engaged with his characters than he used to be back then. I find some of his early SF to be too coldly unemtional even for me.

The Culture is so much more than the federation. The culture has some really interesting attitudes that defy easy pigeonholing.

The wasp factory was a cracker ('literary nasty' - Daily Mail), and Walking On Glass, The Bridge and The Crow Road are all gripping, disturbing and compelling books. The Song Of Stone, Inversions and the Business are not very good, best to read someone elses copy IMO.

There is a broad gap between the 'rockets and blasters' brigade of SF and the more thoughtful stuff, and yet another gulf between that and the non-genre fiction that ends up in SF because no-one knows where to put it, I speak mainly of J.G.Ballard of course, High Rise, Crash, Wind from Nowhere, War Fever, The Crystal World and so on and so forth.  A great writer often ignored because his work is not easily classifiable.

Another Great British writer of finest SF is Jeff Noon. If you've not enjoyed Vurt, Pollen, Nymphomation, Needle in the Groove, Automated Alice or his short stories, then you have so much to look forward to!

heh and yeah, if the federation ever ran across the culture, they would run screaming!

[Dowding]

Cool Bounder.

Song of Stone made me feel ill. It's just so barbaric in a weird, surreal way that I was glad it ended. Couldn't stop reading it though - an unpleasant experience. And I've never been squeamish, I think it was because the characters were all degraded, perverted people.

Complicity is probably my favourite - the coke snorting, spliff smoking journo is such a great character. I've always liked flawed heros.

The Business was poor - I couldn't get even a 1/3 of the way through without shelving it.

Whit was ok, but a little dull. I'm not interested in obscure Scottish cults.

The Crow Road was turned into a TV drama. In fact I watched it before I read the book, without realising it. I was reading the scene where the husband is climbing through the roof space and spies his wife shagging the chauffeur and got a strong sense of deja vu.

Yeah, the Culture would kick the Federation's bellybutton into next week along with those Borg things.

Actually, the Culture are kind of like a vision of a Comunistic utopia - everyone is equal, everyone has everything they want. Altruism is possible because resources are limitless. Seemed like a cool society to live. I also dig, the Special Circumstances espionage side of it. Very James Bond with far better gadgets and a lot more edgier.

You read his latest one, Bounder? 'Dead Air'?

[bounder]

No, I haven;t read Dead air Yet (just found out about it in your post - out in softback yet?)

The thing  I like most about the culture are the Minds. Often embedded in planetoid sized ships like the GSV Sleeper Service with a crew of many tens of thousands. These ships use Enterprise sized starships as runabouts and shuttles - and they are all built on board to spec. The sleeper service that went rogue and decided to become a spaceborne safari park.

I particularly liked his names for the Ships.
Frank Exchange of Views
Grey Area (Meat F*cker)
Sleeper Service
The Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival
Serious Callers Only
Not Invented Here
Attitude Adjuster
Jaundiced Outlook
Shoot them Later
and
Rapid Offensive Unit classes: Abominator, Torturer, Gangster, Inquisitor, Killer, Psychopath & Thug.

Dowding, have you looked at Jeff Noon at all?

[Shuckins]

Read "The Berserker Wars" or anything in the Berserker series by Fred Saberhagen.

I'm partial to Sword and Sorcery myself.  Fritz Leiber is one of the best, especially his "Fahred and the Grey Mouser" series.

Regards, Shuckins

[Dowding]

I love the ship names. Funny and weird. Imagine them in a modern day setting:

"This is HMS In Anticipation of a New Lover's arrival. Requesting permission to lay alongside USS Frank Exchange of Views."

I'll check out Jeff Noon - any recommendations?

Dead Air is about the aftermath of the WTC attacks. Has received mixed reviews. I haven't read it yet - waiting for paperback addition.

I'll have a look into that Shuckins.

[lord dolf vader]

sci fi has saved more cornered minds than prozac ever will, while educating (in a hit and miss fashion) in high science. i honestly believe i owe my (in a hit and miss fashion) sanity to it. futhermore once you start reading, anything really you never stop till your dead.



and what is a spliff?

[Animal]

sci-fi as literature... sucks?

Try these books you may like them:

Neuromancer (and mostly anything else by William Gibson)

Going for Infinity (a compilation of short stories, most very good)

1984 (big brother is watching you amazinhunk)

[Dowding]

I've read 1984 - it certainly isn't sci-fi. It's a future historical social commentary.

A spliff is a joint.

[narsus]

The Deathstalker series by Simon Green.