Author Topic: A good movie, a bad night  (Read 782 times)

Offline wulfie

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2003, 04:28:34 AM »
Erg sorry about the 'Heart of Darkness' mistake it's late here. :)

Apocalypse now is based on a true story (I've read the FOIA-cleared files), and there has been a book written about the guy I'm talking about (field name was Tony P.). The name of the book won't come to me at the moment.

I think I made the slipup based on the 'behind the scenes' movie for Apocalypse Now being called 'Hearts of Darkness' or something along those lines.

For an idea of what I'm talking about, go pick up a copy of 'The Very Best Men'. If memory serves the intelligence officer's field name is listed as 'Tone Poe' or something along those lines. In the chapters dealing with the war in SEA you'll get some information on what I am referring to.

Sorry for the title slipup there - honest mistake.

Mike/wulfie

Offline wulfie

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2003, 04:40:27 AM »
Here's some information:

"According to Evan Thomas's recent The Very Best Men, an account of Desmond Fitzgerald, Richard Bissell, and other leaders of early CIA covert operations, his flight was "aided by the CIA…. Tony Poe…was the CIA's man on the ground. He later presented a crayon portrait of the Dalai Lama's flight out of Tibet to Richard Bissell, while Fitzgerald told his family about Poe and the Dalai Lama racing down the runway of a remote mountain strip, a step ahead of the blazing guns of the PLA."

Thomas notes elsewhere that Poe (real name: Poshepny), who later lived in Laos "in a house decorated with a string of ears that had been chopped off the heads of dead communists…," "was sometimes said to be the real-life version of the mad Colonel Kurtz of Apocalypse Now.…"

Poshepny is a Hungarian who served in the USMC before working for the CIA.

Mike/wulfie

Offline Dowding

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2003, 04:43:33 AM »
Apocalypse Now is based on Conrad's Heart of Darkness, there's no doubt about that wulfie.

Read the book, you'll see the parallels instantly. The lead character has to find a hunter who was the company's best man, but has gone toto deep in darkest Africa. The film captures the feel of the book really well, even though they are set in completely different eras, and continents.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2003, 04:46:41 AM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline rod367th

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2003, 07:16:29 AM »
Hangtime, I agree some movies did more to harm, the way folks at home treated and talked to Viet nam vets during war and when they got home. My biggest Regret was telling my Brother they day he left for Viet nam, As he is walking away I yell out " kill some gooks for me please". This was the last thing I ever said to him. He was shot down in 1967.  Lost 2 older brothers in Viet nam. one that die instantly the other parachuted to ground spent 3 years in prison. I thought I could watch Viet nam movies To understand why My brother came home so messed up, that he thought taking his own life was better than the memories.




 My best thoughts were when my father explained to my mom, what and why my brothers gave thier lives. He said "We have to fight communism, When ever and where ever we can, its the only way to break Russia without losing millions of lives in a nuclear war"

 I hope your life is going well and hope for peace in your life time you deserve it.

Offline StSanta

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2003, 07:43:29 AM »
I won't salute you you old fart. You're losing your mind. Why salute that.

But, since you'll have no use for a mind, why not experiment with it?

I am sure I can procure some interesting mind bending substances for ya :D

ya old bastard. Glad you lived through that hell - and stayed sane.

Offline Ping

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2003, 07:48:59 AM »
Never served here, however when I saw SPR in the theaters, I too walked out with an empty and devastated feeling inside.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline Dinger

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2003, 07:56:11 AM »
and the Kurtz in Heart of Darkness is based on a RL character too: I think there's even a photograph of him at his hut, around which he built a palisade of skulls.  In fact, much of HoD is non-fiction from COnrad's experiences in the Congo (a nasty, nasty, place, btw.  In the 1890s Western exploitation killed somewhere between 10 and 80 million people).
As for Apocalypse Now; there's nothing excluding another influence besides Conrad.

Offline Hangtime

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2003, 08:06:04 PM »
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Hangtime, when and what unit and what MOS? Just curious. My Dad and 2 Uncles were over there.


Hiya Wulfie... Jan-Nov 69 with the 9th Inf, Co. E 709th Maint Bn, Dong Tam. . Thats down in the Delta on the Song My river. I was a 62M20.. RT loader and forklift operator.. but I was known a 'Wheels' back then. I drove everything.. primary fuction of my unit was Service and Evac. If it was sunk, shot, crashed or busted, we went and got it, fixed it, scrapped it or cannablized it. We worked pretty close with the Navy, ran support for them too.

I slept ok last night... little muzzy this am. Feelin ok now. I get moody when my memory gets prodded. Faces come back, names. Places. Smells. Bad things, good things. I'll wrap all the memories back up, stick 'em in that place where they stay till called forth by chance. Or mood. Or the way the light flashes off muddy water. Or the smell of diesel smoke or the 'whop whop whop' of a low speed rotor... or a movie that knocks the minds doors wide open; all at once.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline StSanta

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2003, 07:58:34 AM »
On a sidenote, I didn't like 'we were soldiers'.

I should clarify; the combat scenes were very realistic. I didn't know the Vietnamese attack in numbers - always been told they kept away from direct conventional war with Americans. However this was the irst use of choppers so they might not have worked it out yet.

Didn't know that it was so close fighting - firing literally into someone a few feet away. Was it like this?

What i disliked was the entire start. The depiction of Moore is one dimensional, full of clichés and utterly lacking of depth. Its a classical attempt at showing what a good father/human being he is, classical perfect family picture.

Cheesy 'they stick to you because you're the best' comments. Hero standing up under fire while his much better concealed men gets shot to pieces - not a scratch on Mr Hero.

Long sections of the film were mushy and without point. After 30 minutes of the film my sis said 'man, so far this has been a chick flick'.

While the action sequences were memorable and extremely well done, they overdid the 'grittyness'. Put a toejameload of mud ion the soldiers faces - that automatically guarantee that the viewer sees the film as down and dirty. Seems like a cosmetic shortcut to try to achieve the feeling of 'these are battle hardened soldiers on the verge of giving up, near mental exhaustion. 'Platoon' achieved that goal by carefully relying on charcter building rather than makeup and action sequences. What dialogue there is in this film is either to confirm the great love relationship, fear the wives have, direct commands or cheesy one liners. The film doesn't transport one into the lives of the soldiers - they're unknowns dying in random unpredictable ways. I imagine that that was how it was to be a soldier over there, but in a film you want to know the characters - in three dimensions.

But the combat stuff was outstanding. it's in the top 10 for war scenes, along with Band of Brothers, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket and other great films.

I can understand why the combat would transport a veteran back into the hell hole. But the character building is sorely lacking and there's a feeble attempt at creating characters using well worn clichés and effects and it falls crashing into the ground.

This review isn't meant to diminish the experiences of the soldiers over there or the emotional trauma suffered by real life heroes (IMHO) like Hangtime and his comrades in arms. It's just about the film, not reality.

Hangtime.

Offline Monk

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2003, 08:07:25 AM »
Mr. Hangtime.

Offline miko2d

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2003, 08:25:16 AM »
Here is an evolution of a medical term describing exactly the same phenomena:

 WWI: Shell-Shock.

 Bad, bad term. Mentions shock and shells explicitely. Shells are bad things. We would rather not think of that. Evokes impression of a young guy going mad seing his comrades get blown up by those shells day after day all around him. It may cause us think twice before sendng people to fight.


 WWII: Combat fatigue

 That is much better. Some young gents got tired doing some exercise. Oh, yea - combat is mentioned. Have to do something about that.

 Gulf War: PTSD

 Nice term. Post-traumatic stress disorder. Something one's wife gets if she breakes a nail playing raquetball. We can relate to that. No mention of war or military or risking one's life. We've all got stress - in the workplace, with kids, just watching news. Witness the popularity of shrinks, counselling and self-help books.
 Stress is everywhere. May as well send kids to fight - same sh#t, right?

 miko
« Last Edit: January 24, 2003, 08:27:54 AM by miko2d »

Offline Hangtime

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2003, 09:35:12 AM »
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Didn't know that it was so close fighting - firing literally into someone a few feet away. Was it like this?


Like anything else.. depends. Did I see anything like what was depicted? Oh, yes. Sadly.

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they overdid the 'grittyness'.


Nope. Underdone. It wan't at all unusual to be asleep in your hooch one minute and 60 seconds later be lying in the ditch wondering if the mortar attack will be follwed up with a wave attack or nothing at all.

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. Hero standing up under fire while his much better concealed men gets shot to pieces - not a scratch on Mr Hero.


Luck. Luck played such an immense role.. it's almost impossible to get across to folks that ain't seen her play across the field.. What mattered to all of us was LUCK.. training, combat skill, experience, courage were all in the back seat. Luck was the one driving. I can't tell you how it felt.. there was no explaining it.. you do feel guilty tho.. far more worthy people than I didn't come home. It works on you. "Why him, and not me?...

"
Quote
This review isn't meant to diminish the experiences of the soldiers over there or the emotional trauma suffered by real life heroes (IMHO) like Hangtime and his comrades in arms.


I'm no hero, Santa. I'm just lucky.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline midnight Target

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2003, 10:19:48 AM »
I asked my co-worker here about the movie, and he pulled out a letter he keeps in his notebook to this day...

It is a letter of recommendation he wrote for a spotter pilot. Here is the short version.

My co-worker (lets call him Art) was a Marine A-4 pilot in 1968 and 1969. During every Marine pilot's tour, he was required to do 1 month as a ground spotter. Art was in the middle of this month when he and his company were ambushed by a large force of NVA.

Now the gound spotter's job was to call the spotter pilot (in a Piper or Bronco) with info on where to drop ordinance, and the spotter pilot would in turn call the A-4's or F-4's with the coordinants. The Marines liked this system because the ground spotter might be kinda excited when he was calling the air spotter, and the air spotter could calmly relay the info to the fast movers.

Art called the spotter pilot, and told him the enemy was 50 yards away and coming in.... too close. The spotter pilot wanted to call in a napalm drop, but wanted to be very sure of the location. The spotter pilot dropped down to treetop level or lower to make sure he had it right, then called in a drop 30 yards for Art's location.

This saved a lot of lives needless to say, so Art wrote a letter of recommendation for the pilot, extolling his bravery and sent it to the proper authorities.

The proper authorities saw the letter and immediately cited the spotter pilot for flying too low. Instead of a medal he got slapped.

Offline lazs2

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A good movie, a bad night
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2003, 11:07:13 AM »
gee hang... you should see what they do with bikers in the old biker flics... I didn't get all maudlin about it tho.

They are entertainment.   sean penn and george clooney don't have any opinions worth hearing... nicolas cage and tom cruise overact to the point of gagging me... get over it.
lazs