Suggestion: Gun Jams

[Midnight]

How about player induced gun jams / malfunctions?

1. Jams when firing under high G conditions.

2. Jams when firing in prolonged bursts (spray and pray)

[devious]

Of course, a Mauser of superior german workmanship & engineering will never fail hehe

devious, from Oberndorf a.N., home of the Mauser Werke, out !

[Duedel]

Originally posted by Midnight
How about player induced gun jams / malfunctions?

1. Jams when firing under high G conditions.

2. Jams when firing in prolonged bursts (spray and pray)

I like this idea much more than random gun jams.  I'm pretty sure random guns jams will be followed by long whhhiiiinnnnneeesss.
BTW are there any specifications or statistices about gun jams?

[Swoop]

yeah man, player induced.  

Should also be plane specific.  P51B .50cals are famous for jamming under a G-load, for example.

[fats]

Duedel,

I recall seeing a figure of less than 1 stoppage per 1500 rounds fired for Hispano in '44 or there abouts. But that has little meaning how freuqent the jams could or should really be due to usage patterns. Kind of like basing planes' performance on victories to deaths to get it to same level in AH.


// fats

[Pongo]

we should assume that what was meant by random reliablility for guns wasnt meant as truly random..but effected by historical reputation of weapon and mounting and by the usage and theater..

[Swoop]

Thats an assumption.

[Wotan]

actually thats a  big assumption. Unless some one can come up with factual data that shows the probrabilty of guns jamming by type we mostly rely on anecdotal evidence.

The idea that guns automatically jammed with long burst is about as real as melting the gun barrels.

Without real evidence then "random" is the only way to go. Or not do it at all.

[JB42]

Woton:

Although i doubt that a gun barrel ever "melted" there are two definite things that happen to them during long periods of use.

I remember reading about 3 man MG42 light machine gun teams. 1 guy carried the weapon, 1 guy carried the ammo and 1 guy carried extra barrels. After long periods of use, the heat would actually warp the barrel and thus altering its accuracy. They would have to replace the barrels periodically. I would imagine this to be the case in AC guns if prolonged use of the weapon were to happen.

The other thing did happen in many AC guns. The heat would expand the firing mechanism making it to small for the next round to enter making reloading impossible. After the guns cooled sufficiently, reloading was possible.  

Again, you might want to do actual research to find exact specs for specific guns, but this might be worth modelling.

[moot]

$$

[Pongo]

The contrary position that all guns would be considered equally reliable is also an assumption. They just didnt state it and I did.
You think there was no data rating the reliablility of one gun and one mounting vs another..
you think that gun barrels dont melt if fired too long?
I can assure you they do.

[brady]

Their is tons of evidance citing weapon reliabality for various aircraft, some using the same weapons were more prone to faliuler than other simply do to the design of the instlation.

 This topic and it's implmanation will be highly debated no doubt, espichaly if it is historical and based on know negative traits that certain planes possesed.

 One way to do it would be to simply randomise the effect for all planes, a generic damage model if you will.

 Another would be to combine the Generic model with know relalibality issues.

 Whatever the ultamate critiria for imlementing this is to be I think it is great.

[Dowding]

A big NO to using anecdotal evidence for any gameplay decision.

'Random' gun jams based on a statistical study are fine. But I doubt you'll find such a study for every weapon in AH.

Jams under high G-loading would be fine however.

[Wotan]

Pongo defined prolonged firing?

heat transfer from the gun barrel to atmosphere on plane traveling at 300mph and at altitudes above sea level is great.

You wont melt a barrel or warp it with less then 15 sec continous fire.

JB mg 42 fired on the ground can sustain more the 15 sec fire.

Gun jams are different in that theres a variety of factors that contribute. Studies that predict gun reliability are based averages and are not exact. If you hard code it that xx gun should jam 1 every 5 missions its bs.

If its random and considers real life data and incoporates that into "random" thats fine.

But having 1 out of every 7 spits in mission end up with a jammed hizooka would be bs.

How the gun was cleaned, loaded etc all effect the probrability that a gun will jam.

Guns didnt auto jam at 3 gs either.

The only way to do it would for it to be random as Dowding says:

'Random' gun jams based on a statistical study are fine. But I doubt you'll find such a study for every weapon in AH

Now find that data so ht can do it.

[Imp]

The MG151 gondolas on the 109 had trouble under G load I think.
A 109 pilot said it jam under G load and would not fire anymore.