Author Topic: Replace GPS (Read 956 times)

Esme · « **on:** January 29, 2003, 01:11:20 PM »

Get rid of the damned thing - it is NOT necessary. Clipboard maps, sure, but no "you are here" marker. Maybe create a dot command

.location

that after a suitable interval returns a message giving a very rough location (or a location with a random inaccuracy up to say, the equivalent of 1 grid square). That way the fighter types that can't be bothered to learn teh terrain can't get badly lost, and those that can be bothered have a last-resort system if they completely lose their bearings during a dogfight. Also acts as an aid to newbie buffers that havent learnt to navigate properly yet.

Then do away with airborne radar in its current form altogether. The only radar available in-flight should emulate the capabilities of what was actually available in-flight. Conversely, make manning the ground radar more of a skill.

The upshot would be that no-one gets hopelessly lost, those that put the wee bit of effort into learning to navigate properly benefit from it (because their navigation will be more accurate), lone fighters wont find it so insanely easy to find buffs and kill them - they'll have to work as a team with other players, to obtain sightings of buffs and corellate that with ground based radar, then assuming they know where they are themselves, work out their heading to target.

Heck, it could even induce folks to fly patrols looking for hostiles and then shadowing them to report their position, as was done in RL. It'd also mean that fighters escorting bomber raids would have an incentive to stay near the buffs - the buffs would more likely know their position accurately than the fighters would.

Oh - and properly DARK NIGHTS. Please. :-)

Esme

Wotan · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2003, 01:37:59 PM »

depends on the detail level of the maps. If its possible can navigate by terrain features (roads, rail, rivers etc) then go for it.

Until then folks need to know where they are so can follow way points etc.

Its not going be very fun wondering aboutr with no clue as to where you are.

Furious · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2003, 02:08:47 PM »

in a sorta related vein...

I think it would be cool if HTC set up a shop in a 3rd world country and paid 6-12 folks to be "online" for 8 hour shifts 24 hours a day solely for the purpose of acting as sector controllers.

With this we could do away with the inflight dar altogether, and just have a scalable hi-definition map.

F.

popeye · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2003, 02:54:24 PM »

Maybe click on a friendly base while in flight, and get "bearing and range" info.

DarkHawk · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2003, 03:17:08 PM »

POPEYE
Good suggestion. like range and bearing as if you contraclted a local radar operations for your location

DarkHawk

Replicant · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2003, 04:02:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
depends on the detail level of the maps. If its possible can navigate by terrain features (roads, rail, rivers etc) then go for it.

Until then folks need to know where they are so can follow way points etc.

Its not going be very fun wondering aboutr with no clue as to where you are.

I know where you're coming from Esme but I have to agree with Wotan. The terrain needs to be of greater detail to navigate properly, especially if AH2 has larger terrains with the same style terrain tiles. Proper roads and rail tracks, rivers and lakes have got to be a must for proper navigation to be successful, especially if the particular terrain has no distinguishing land features.

Wotan · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2003, 04:22:05 PM »

You could have a ground control vectoring you.

Like the old box sims eaw il2 etc........

You could request vector to next way point using a dot command.

.vnext
.vhome

etc.

Have text msg pop up giving you the vector "heading 270"

maybe a position request.

.pos

a msg texts pops up using the standard grid location 12 3 6 etc.

But either way its still "gps" without the map icon.

If you are lookin to simulate true navigation then pre planning is necessary.....

ie we will at 250 mph heading 330 for 6 min then turn to heading 006 for 12 min.......but even then you need good terrain reference to be reasonably confident in your heading.

If you screw up you wont find your way home or the enemy. You end up touring the map until you run out of gas. If its made that difficult to just take off and fly your mission and rtb, then its not gonna have a broad appeal.

funkedup · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2003, 04:24:36 PM »

I know that the RAF used to give their pilots vectors to base via radar and via radio direction finding fixes. The pilot would transmit and the DF equipment would be used to give him a rough course home. Would be cool to have that in the game.

Wotan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2003, 04:34:34 PM »

isnt looking at the clipboard map basically the same thing?

Except in the visual instead of over the "radio".

The lw was vectored at bomber formations as well.....

You could do away with an inflight map altogether and rely on being vectored by ground controllers completely.......

Either way you know exactly where you are at.

BenDover · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2003, 05:00:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup
I know that the RAF used to give their pilots vectors to base via radar and via radio direction finding fixes. The pilot would transmit and the DF equipment would be used to give him a rough course home. Would be cool to have that in the game.

pip sweak

Miska · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2003, 05:28:32 PM »

From some old posts of mine:

Mission theater: a few more options?
Since the mission theater will likely appeal to the more hardcore grognards in here, would it be possible to have a few more options. These could either be at the arena level (could be set by CMs) or purely at the individual use level (like the f2 icon options). For example:

Instruments that behave realistically under g-load and during violent lateral displacements (especially wet compass). Right now, the fact that the instruments are always dead on really allows people to do things they would never attempt otherwise.

Keep the map, ditch the position marker. The terrain is good enough and rich enough to fly by visual cues. In addition, would it be difficult to have radio beacons tuned to a field/facility's number? With two or three bearings, you could fix your position accurately on the map.

Better radar modeling, with an idea of the strength, bearing and alt of a contact, but no dots on the map.

Slightly more engine management. Right now, people can keep Mil power the whole time and this significantly affects the viability of historical tactics in the arena.

I suppose what I have in mind, is a "wish list" for grognards, and I see the Mission Theater as the perfect way of introducing some of these things that some of us have been asking for since, oh, before we had VFilm for AW DOS GEnie

Mission theater suggestion
Since this is going to be an 8th AF setup, it would be the perfect opportunity to introduce meaningful recon/BDA missions. Just assign a target, an alt range from which to take the picture, a recon camera loadout, a shutter key, and you're good to go. I'd love to see that. Heck, I might set up a Recon Flight in 880 just for that!

Black Sheep · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2003, 09:51:54 PM »

Maybe down the road in a version not so far away - we can call for position over voice and the computer will return vectors for intercept, rtb, etc...- first we need to fix this AHVoice from crappin out altogether

Mini D · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2003, 10:59:06 PM »

Would be nice to have a "request vector" key of some sort for RTB. Or for intercepting incoming bombers.

Figuring out how to handle attack missions is another story, however. Dunno if there is a reasonable solution that covers all scenarios.

MiniD

Ghosth · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2003, 11:06:36 PM »

I really like Popeye's suggestion.

Pick field you want to rtb or fix position from. Give it a control /click or whatever and host msg comes back with compass bearing and rough range.

Triangulate on 2 fields and you know where you are.

Should be available only from friendly fields and with a max range built in.
Beyond range would only get bearing.

Griego · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2003, 11:12:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
You could have a ground control vectoring you.

Like the old box sims eaw il2 etc........

You could request vector to next way point using a dot command.

.vnext
.vhome

etc.

Have text msg pop up giving you the vector "heading 270"

maybe a position request.

.pos

a msg texts pops up using the standard grid location 12 3 6 etc.

But either way its still "gps" without the map icon.

If you are lookin to simulate true navigation then pre planning is necessary.....

ie we will at 250 mph heading 330 for 6 min then turn to heading 006 for 12 min.......but even then you need good terrain reference to be reasonably confident in your heading.

If you screw up you wont find your way home or the enemy. You end up touring the map until you run out of gas. If its made that difficult to just take off and fly your mission and rtb, then its not gonna have a broad appeal.

I like this idea but I would like to get headings on vox instead. that way you could use your radio for what it was intended for.