Author Topic: Generalizing Europeans...  (Read 3050 times)

Offline Hortlund

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Generalizing Europeans...
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2003, 06:30:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding

I just hope they come up with something to convince me this is the best way to proceed.


Removing Saddam & his weapons from Iraq will make Israel a bit safer.

...there :)

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2003, 06:31:29 AM »
No only that theres pictures of the Dutch commander drinking with war criminals, they also added in directing the refugess to the buses.

They didnt just throw their hands up in frustration, they actually added in the evacuation. We all know what happen to the male evacuees.

Blaming the "UN" is ok but like all militaries it the responsibility of their Government to see to it that their soldiers are given necessary tools to complete their mission.

This is the very reason some in the US are not to keen on relying on the UN. Its the resposibility of the politicians to make sure their forces are given the best possibility to succeed. Thats where the buck starts and stops.

Anyway you wanna rationalize it, they fluffied up. The consequences were dreadful and should be a real lesson not only to the UN but to those members who send troops to support UN actions.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2003, 07:00:27 AM »
Quote
Removing Saddam & his weapons from Iraq will make Israel a bit safer.


I trust you are joking. :) I couldn't give a rats bellybutton about Israel and Palestine. Both sides seem to be enjoying the next episode of 'Ariel Sharon: The Eternal Circle of Death', so why should I complain? It's just a shame ordinary people have to suffer while the big nobs try to prove who has the biggest dick.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline ra

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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2003, 07:04:30 AM »
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At least the French and German governments are reflecting the consensus of public opinion within their own countries - afterall, isn't that what they are elected to do?

No.  In geopolitcal matters they are elected to lead.

ra

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2003, 08:34:03 AM »
After a little more research I've found an eye witness report stating that while the executions were going on the Cloggie soldiers were having a party in their compound with 2 trucks of cigarettes and beer that the Serbs provided.

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/intlrel/hfa49268.000/hfa49268_0f.htm




Offline CyranoAH

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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2003, 08:54:39 AM »
This letter doesn't mean much, IMO. The European Parliament voted today against the war in Iraq unless the UN approves.

And about these 8 countries... it's all about the balance of power in Europe... one side being Germany and France and the other being UK, Italy, Spain and some other countries it would seem.

It has nothing to do with public opinion in those countries, as Dowding said. 97% of Spaniards are against the war in Iraq.

Daniel

Offline straffo

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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2003, 09:08:51 AM »
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And about these 8 countries... it's all about the balance of power in Europe... one side being Germany and France and the other being UK, Italy, Spain and some other countries it would seem.


shut up peasant ;)


just kidding :)

pas taper la tęte
C'est une blague
toi pas taper moi (ou alors pas trop fort :D)

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2003, 09:12:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
This letter doesn't mean much, IMO. The European Parliament voted today against the war in Iraq unless the UN approves.

And about these 8 countries... it's all about the balance of power in Europe... one side being Germany and France and the other being UK, Italy, Spain and some other countries it would seem.



You are seriously overstating the importance of the European Parliament. They are completely irrelevant in this question. I mean totally irrelevant, the opinion of some random polish peasant is about as important as the voice of the EU Parliament when it comes to matters like these.

As for the balance of power...well it just tipped.

France and Germany vs UK, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Poland, Czech

...and rest of Europe undecided

Offline Hiker

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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2003, 09:23:32 AM »
I guess Hortlund and Swoop where there...

As always it´s very easy to accuse people of what they did and didnt do when the dust settles. Sometimes its the only decent thing to do (as the warcrimes during the second world war), sometimes the only decent thing to do is to try to understand why things turned out the way they did.

Failure to do so only ends up with bloated and rather pointless coments.

Yes, there has been an official investigation, and yes it failed to consider the fact that the members of the comition satt in comfy chairs faaaaar from the actions the investigated when they took place.

In my humble opinion the dutch soldiers did what they could do. Of course the CO could have opted to take a heroic stance, in which case he most surely would have been roughly treated by the dutch opinion, government and probably by the UN. However then he would have been dead, so at least he wouldnt have had to listen to harsh words from people who werent there...

Did 6 months in Bosnia, got shot at and screamed at. Also smiled at and waved at. Sometimes all of the aboth mentioned by the same people the same day, but not necesarily in the order above.
It was a hell of a situation, which could have been much better if UN had had the resources necessary. Which we didnt have, we did what we could do with what we had. So did the Dutch.

Please dont go at them again, I´ve heard so many people who werent there badmouth them that Im getting tired of it.

Sincerely Hiker
PFC
7th COY Swebat

Offline straffo

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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2003, 09:29:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
You are seriously overstating the importance of the European Parliament. They are completely irrelevant in this question. I mean totally irrelevant, the opinion of some random polish peasant is about as important as the voice of the EU Parliament when it comes to matters like these.  


Don't you have some swede in EU parlement ?

If so any Swedish opinion is  "completely irrelevant in this question" :D

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2003, 09:50:55 AM »
Wooooo Hoooooooo!!



Albania is with us too!!!!!!!


:D

Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2003, 10:31:51 AM »
Hortlund is probably a thick fatt assed guy with thick glasses who probably got disaproved by his countrys army.

Otherwise he would have been one of the bravest soldiers in the world.

I think the commander in sebrenica was a popsicle.
But it was probably more than that.

They should have sended our marines they have a longer history and experience than thos airmobiles that just excisted for a few years.

:rolleyes:

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2003, 10:35:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Hortlund is probably a thick fatt assed guy with thick glasses who probably got disaproved by his countrys army.

Otherwise he would have been one of the bravest soldiers in the world.

I think the commander in sebrenica was a popsicle.
But it was probably more than that.

They should have sended our marines they have a longer history and experience than thos airmobiles that just excisted for a few years.

:rolleyes:


See, didnt I tell you that you shouldnt have read my post. Now you got all nervous and agitated. Better smoke some pot to cool those nerves now...

Offline Rude

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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2003, 10:42:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Wooooo Hoooooooo!!



Albania is with us too!!!!!!!


:D


Perhaps the reason that smaller nations support the US intervention into Iraq, particularily the former east bloc, is because the abuse they suffered by tyrannical leaders is still fresh in their minds....Germany and France have been fat and sassy for a long time.

Offline Thud

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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2003, 11:15:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan

Blaming the "UN" is ok but like all militaries it the responsibility of their Government to see to it that their soldiers are given necessary tools to complete their mission.
 


It started as a mission to represent the UN as being responsible for a relatively calm safe haven, i.e. just maintaing a presence there. And for that mission the forces there were sufficiently equipped. Nobody in higher UN echelons or in (Dutch) government circles had ever expected the Serbs to actually attack Srebrenica. The mission changed suddenly and therefore the troops weren't properly equipped or supported to face the the new situation.

As for the commander, he was indeed far from a competent leader on some points, I would like to see anyone of his critics in his position though. Bet they wouldn't be so quick to judge thereafter... Armchair warriors