Author Topic: Mandela speaks (Read 1970 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #30 on:** January 31, 2003, 01:51:39 AM »

Mandela's comments are clearly ignorant and he incredibly misinformed. I think I have lost all repect for him if he really believes those things he said. He is being an idiot.

Kanth · « **Reply #31 on:** January 31, 2003, 02:13:12 AM »

I would fear him if he is allowed to drive a car.

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Originally posted by SaburoS
Apparently, many here in this thread do, including you. If you all didn't "really care what he thinks", you all wouldn't comment on him. You fear his opinion that much?
Just my take on it.

Glasses · « **Reply #32 on:** January 31, 2003, 02:37:15 AM »

What has Mandela done for South Africa,
Other than remove apartheid?

Since he took over and the following governments S. Africa has been a hell hole of rape,crime and AIDS. Yes an Utopia indeed.

Dowding · « **Reply #33 on:** January 31, 2003, 03:19:05 AM »

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I belive in my country and I belive in my govenment and if they say we need to turn iraq into a glass parking lot I support them 100%.

That's foolish. Not because you're willing to use that tired, stupid cliche, but because you would not question your government's motives if it chose to kill several million civilians with atomic weapons.

That's not patriotism - that's abject stupidity.

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What has Mandela done for South Africa,
Other than remove apartheid?

Since he took over and the following governments S. Africa has been a hell hole of rape,crime and AIDS. Yes an Utopia indeed.

lol That's like saying:

1) Well the Nazis were evil bastards - but at least there wasn't much crime!

or

2) Communism may have been a suffocating destructive form of slavery - but at least there wasn't much crime!

What did that Ghandi ever do for India, apart from liberate a contintent?

The transition from apartheid to majority rule was remarkably bloodless. For that alone, the remarks of an old and aging man can be excused.

Glasses · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2003, 03:54:22 AM »

Dowding it wasn't bloodless , look what happened afterwards, the country is run by savages.

Disclaimer: This is not meant to be Hypocritically correct.

bounder · « **Reply #35 on:** January 31, 2003, 04:04:07 AM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Mandela's comments are clearly ignorant and he incredibly misinformed. I think I have lost all repect for him if he really believes those things he said. He is being an idiot.

You know Grunherz, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Except one thing - I don't think its worth writing off his whole life for - he has not lost all my respect.

I was most startled by this, from a man famous for conciliatory rhetoric as well as his firebrand credentials. Saddened even.

My belief is he has become a cantankerous old man (and he is getting very old now), who couldn't give a toss what people think of him, and is willing to say things just to piss people off. (like my Grandad was).

Suave · « **Reply #36 on:** January 31, 2003, 05:09:07 AM »

Why is so much of the world so bent on protecting a murderous dictator ?

bounder · « **Reply #37 on:** January 31, 2003, 06:11:24 AM »

It's not why are they protecting one dictator, but why we have singled out one dictator in particular.

Especially with our record of installing them or endorsing them, and butressing their regimes against their people, with funds for the police and military.

That and the surfeit of other dictators about the place.

But Mandela is talking ill-informed crap IMO.

Gunthr · « **Reply #38 on:** January 31, 2003, 08:16:10 AM »

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It's not why are they protecting one dictator, but why we have singled out one dictator in particular. Especially with our record of installing them or endorsing them, and butressing their regimes against their people, with funds for the police and military. - Bounder

Hello Bounder,

If you refer to Saddam Hussain, you will hear convincing evidence to answer your question when US Sec of State Powell addresses the United Nations - in a week or so.

Regarding your qualifier: "Especially with our record of installing them or endorsing them, and butressing their regimes against their people, with funds for the police and military."

Past foreign policy is irrelevent. Its irritating to hear this rationale for non-support of Bush's policy towards Iraq repeated so often. If you don't like how Bush is handling Iraq, please choose another argument.

Americans, whatever their political views, ALL expect the President to protect our families and loved ones from outside threats. That expectation willl not be set aside because someone thinks that American foreign policy has not been consistent over the years. The issue is security.

ra · « **Reply #39 on:** January 31, 2003, 08:38:03 AM »

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Especially with our record of installing them or endorsing them, and butressing their regimes against their people, with funds for the police and military.

America supported Stalin in WWII, one of the most murderous dictators in history. Care to second guess that policy?

ra

Batz · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2003, 09:00:20 AM »

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he has not lost all my respect

What will it take?....... he was a terrorist, his followers killed people in his name, his wife killed people in his name.

How many tires and gasoline does it take?

His comments were idiotic but "his entire" life is nothing to exalt.

His government was a failure by any measure. The conditions in SA are nothing to be proud of.

The real question is what has he done to "earn" respect and why should we think his comments have any meaning what so ever.

Lots of people have been prisoners and political prisoners and survived. There is nothing inherently "unique" in his life, especially on that continent.

Habu · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2003, 09:03:52 AM »

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Originally posted by ra
America supported Stalin in WWII, one of the most murderous dictators in history. Care to second guess that policy?

ra

"Uncle Joe" Stalin was at least ready to let millions of Russians die fighting the Germans on the eastern front. At the time it was better to be friends with him and let him tie up all those German soldiers than to be enemies and risk him making some sort of truce with the Germans. Although Hitler and Stalin hated each other the fact that the clash was destroying each others military would have been reason enough for a false truce.

Stalin would have been glad to let the Brits/Americans/etc bleed the Germans white before eventually breaking the truce and invading Germany once the hard part was over. He would have too.

By making him an allie the west forced Hitler to keep on fighting him.

Batz · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2003, 09:15:18 AM »

What are talking about? Stalin and the Soviets were effectively fighting the Germans on their own since 41' till the allies landed in NA.

**exclaimer dont start telling me about rhubarbs and circuses or even the Battles in Libya. Although this was "real" fighting, the German invasion of russia was on a scale far greater then either of these 2 theaters. The fact is the western allies had no choice. They had to work with Stalin and they were all to ready to let the Soviets bleed the German forces dry.

mauser · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2003, 10:58:53 AM »

I saw a portion of Mandela's speech on the news. When he spoke of "unspeakable attrocities" he referred to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This was a pretty good shock to me coming from him. Thought he wasn't the type to resort to this tactic when speaking publically, especially when he should be educated enough to know about such places as Bataan and Nanking, not to mention THE Holocaust.

mauser

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2003, 11:17:15 AM »

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Originally posted by Batz

The real question is what has he done to "earn" respect

Simple - hes black, of course. So much for not judging people "by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character," eh?