I appologise

[miko2d]

I appologise for insensitive remarks concerning some US soldiers, especially considering a risk they may soon face for no good reason - a still indeterminate but possibly much greater risk than what our armchair war proponents claim. I mean, if iraqi military is so weak and unwilling to fight for Hussein and all the population hates him and wants democracy, they surely would have got rid of him without our help - what with full-auto rifles legally sold and widely available there to everyone.

 My show of respect towards US combat troops - however bad worded and misplaced - was never ment to imply any disrespect towards rear-echelon personnel. I may admire combat troops more that any other people but rear-echelon guys are still closer to action and more vital to the success of the war than a bunch of loud-mouth civilians willing to liberate everyone and anyone and dish out preemptive strikes while sitting on their fat asses.

 Risks and responcibilities are different, but once a soldier, one submits him/herself to the authority of the commander and can be sent anywhere or ordered to die if needed.
 And if a little boasting is involved to get a date or impending risk is used to justify a dumb argument (like that a $6 million-a-year athlete is less deserving of an extra million bucks than a billionaire team owner) - what the heck...
 I scored a few chicks myself on "brave trooper going to face danger" sympathy, even before getting shot at on 8 roubles per month and three meals of cabbage a day. I am certainly not going to hold that against anyone else. Let the boys pose all they want and come home safe.


 I would certainly feel ashamed if my son (or daughter, if any) applies to the non-combat branch of service if a combat-related berth is available (health permitting), but it would be the shame of my failure as a parent, not low opinion of those who fill the vital support roles.

 miko

[TWOLF]

As a former line trooper I stood toe to toe from Russian and East German troops for 3 years on the East/West German Border.
I have always wondered what became of some of my adversaries after the wall came down.  I have always hoped that one day I would have the opportunity to set down the rifles and pick up a stein and possibly a few shot glasses with them.  
  The majority of the drum beaters on our side, as much as that there were on your side are men of power, and have other interests in war then what should be done.  
  You and I are from what is becoming a forgotten generation that possibly has a better understanding of what war is, and the reasons they come about.  I miss my comrades, but I don't miss dodging bullets from border shenanigans, nor from (choose any of the above) Yugoslavian "Patriots" that I encountered when I was deployed there.  We did our duty, it is now their turn.  I just hope that a few of the fat proponets of this war end up on the line.  But I know that won't happen.  It never does.

[VOR]

As far as your old Russian adversaries are concerned, I met them in the Balkans a few years ago. Pretty neat guys really. They would wander from tent to tent trading furry hats, mapcases, and just about anything "Russian" for cd players, maglights, boots, etc to eventually take home and sell. (Their monthly pay was enough to buy 2 packs of cigarettes and a book of matches, if they were paid at all.)

In Sarajevo, they had an entirely different approach to making money: carjacking taxi cabs. The punchline is they didn't try to sell the cab or anything; they drove around in it for a few hours collecting fares!

Strange things were afoot for about the first year after the Yugo war ended...and Ivan was usually standing there with his hand in the cookie jar

[TWOLF]

What unit were you in Vor?  (3/12 inf Scout platoon 1st Armored Div) here.

[miko2d]

VOR: Strange things were afoot for about the first year after the Yugo war ended...and Ivan was usually standing there with his hand in the cookie jar

 That sounds like our guys. If russian government ever gets it's collective head out of it's prettythang and allows truly free market economy - 13% flat tax has been a good start - and keeps out of stupid wars, russians will show the world what real antrepreneurship is all about.


 I imagine the specifics of service were a bit different in a free western country than in a soviet serf army. Rather different approach to the value of human life. Not that a soldier's life was never valued there.
  Has a western officer ever worried that if he lost too many men on a mission, the brass would just napalm the area rather than risk valuable helicopters extracting the survivors?


TWOLF: You and I are from what is becoming a forgotten generation that possibly has a better understanding of what war is, and the reasons they come about.

 For me that includes a realisation that the people one has abused and killed and lost comrades fighting and trying to instill one's society's advanced values on their unreceptive medieval tulips were the good guys all along and he was in the wrong...
  The latest rewrite of history could not have come soon enough for me - now that they are bad guys all over again including Osama (good thing I've never got to mailing an "I am sorry" card to that freedom-fighting S.O.B.). So I do not feel so bad anymore - though I suspect some of them were "Northern Alliance" thugs and still good guys untill the next historical revision... Oh, well...

 miko

[TWOLF]

Edited in light of Miko2d's response.....I misunderstood

[miko2d]

By "you" I ment of course myself and my experience in the soviet army, not any of you, guys. I thought it was obvious and a common literary method - it helps a reader to associate with a writer. I better fix it anyway, so you can delete my quote from your post.

 Soldiers not making policy - what a nice concept. We had to do stuff and like it as well - or at least pretend to - had all kinds of political officers explaining. Couldn't say "I did not vote for the guy -  we all voted, all 99.8% of us...

 miko

[VOR]

TWOLF.. 2/3 ACR. I was a mostly a T.W.A.T. while deployed. We had em, rolled em a couple times, but mostly reminded(threatened?) the local leaders and cops we had em, and were willing to make a great lot of racket thru town with them if they didn't stop doing [whatever it was they were doing]. Usually worked!

For those wondering, avacado is "tanker without a tank", or a poor substitute for an infantryman.


VOR

[TWOLF]

The old Brave Rifles....One of three Real Army units left

I was stuck in an Idiot (infantry) Battalion in Yugo.  What a cluster that was.

 I was in 2/2 ACR from 1979 to 1982, and again later on.  Best damn unit in the Army!  The Cavalry Scout = a grunt with a Brain.
  You must have been 19K.  CDAT