Flew both WB's and AH this week-end:FM

[Ripsnort]

Flew HTH in WB's and AH this week-end, my analysis (as pathetic as it  may be, since I have no time in real WW2 A/C, only private A/C) is this:

AH FM seems very similiar to WB's except that it seems to me that I can get into more 'trouble' (i.e. Stalls, spins, etc) with the AH FM.

I'm not elated, nor am I disappointed.  I adjust to whatever is given to me.  I do see this getting more folks interested in the flight sim, and  that, to me, is a good thing.

What's your opinion?  Anyone out there fly both?

[Maniac]

Yep signed up again for WB an couple of weeks ago.

Well what can i say, people said that the transition from WB to AH is hard i dare you to try WB after you have flown AH an while.

WB´s is an harder sim/game to do good in then AH..

*Six views way more restricted
*No zoom view
*Trimming is harder

When i signed u again i had become an victim to all the anti WB´s propaganda and expected it to be an easy arcade compared to AH, i was wrong  

------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 09-11-2000).]

[Udie]

 I d/l'ed WB about 2 months ago to check it out for old times sake.  AH does feal more like it now, but I still find it tough to get into spins in AH.  Saturday I was flying in my a8 trying to spin, I finaly got it into a nice flatspin (my first ever in AH)  I let it go, started spinning so fast I started to black out   I like that feature.  Then i simply pushed up on the stick and I was in controlled fligh once again. Spins are the one thing I have alway felt WB has over AH. Seriously that flat spin last saturday was the only spin I've been in.

 The only thing that realy bugs me about the new FM is the yaw thing.  I normaly wont comment on FM's because I don't know squat about them, but the yaw seems realy porked to me.  I am able to flat turn any plane with rudder and oposite aileron.  The wings stay level with the ground and the plane seems to turn faster this way too hehe.  Last night I was in the spit.  I hit full right rudder and left aileron, the plane started the flat turn.  I then let go of the aileron and kept my foot on the rudder.  The plane stayed wings level and continued flat turning.  I think I have film of this too if anybody wants to see it.


 That's about the only thing that has me bugged about the new version, that and the warps.  The yaw problem is a pretty huge one in my book, but I'm sure HT is already on it    I haven't formed an opinion on combat trim, yet.  My first impression is that it's easy mode, but I need it for now.  The new stick is WAY diferent than my old TM.   CT does take a HUGE workload off your sholders though  

Udie

[edit]

 Let me add one thing I've learned over the years with this hobby.  It's not good to get bent out of shape right off the bat, if there are things you don't like in a new release.  Things can slip by, I draw house plans and there have been times when I thought "THAT'S IT!!! a perfect set of plans!"  Only to find out later that there was a HUGE error staring me right in the face, and I missed it.

[This message has been edited by Udie (edited 09-11-2000).]

[Yeager]

I flew WBs H2H a few weeks back......still no comparison to AH on most issues IMO.  Unfortunately, the price for "enhanced" performance means that the bar has been lowered for AH and the two sims now resemble
one another.  Im not convinced this is a good thing. Money talks.

Agreed with udie.  The yaw is seriously porked. E retention is greatly improved but I think some very important flight physics were compromised for enhanced playability (ie torque, prop drag).

Playing it by feel,
Yeager


[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 09-11-2000).]

[Revvin]

LOL seems alot of players are migrating back and fore across the border from WB-AH and AH-WB..I too have tried out WB WW2arena this week (its intrigued me for a while) I was a little dissapointed with it but then perhaps my expectations were a bit high but the FM did'nt feel as good as AH's but the leathality felt about the same as the AH main arena. Gunnery was'nt difficult to get back into at all, scored my first kill after 5 mins in the arena, the damage model felt just as random as it did before, I felt I could aim to hurt particular parts on a plane easier in AH where in WB I just sprayed more. The neon tracers still bug me, it really makes me laugh when WB'ers think that WB's tracers are better   Snapshots don't seem to work at all in WB, perhaps this is down to not all the bullets being modelled where AH models them one for one. It may seem as if I'm being a bit down on WB here..ime not because I DID have fun online and met up with a few old friends, it will be interesting to see what WBIII will bring to the online flight sim table in terms of features and FM. I'd like to see iEN's take on an FM and not the 2nd hand one they bought from ICI.

[Fury]

What udie said struck me, because I have been thinking about this since the new release.

My experience so far has only been in the B17, P51, P38 and JU88.  I was under the opposite impression about the P51, P38, and B17..... I think that with the new release, I am finding flat rudder turns to be "harder" or "take longer" than they did in the prev. release, i.e. I thought rudder turns were easier in those planes in the prev release.  I'd like to hear what other people familiar with the 51, 38 and 17 think (maybe it's just me).

Fury

[Brazos]

I have turned off ez mode,

But I can't get in trouble anymore. I can't get a plane to spin. The slightest hint of a spin is corrected by letting go of the JS. I have film of a spit V helecoptering for 10 secs before gently dropping it's nose. I tried several planes, completely crossed up the controls, no spins. What happened?

Thanks...Braz

[funked]

Right now any points for AH are lost due to the porkstorm surrounding the drag at high yaw angles.  If they can fix it this week we have a winnah.  If it were a football game it would be "No Line".  

[funked]

Udie you can't get spins in AH?  Take a Zeke or Yak-9U up in a vertical zoom.  Chop the throttle.  If you don't get a spin, my name ain't Nathan Arizona!

[Ripsnort]

I had an ex-Airforce cadet (who's now 40) over at the house, he hadn't been on a stick in 20 years, I let him try AH, he found every Stall, spin, flat spin, you name it!  It's just that Udie is so good, he flys the A/C flawlessly!  

[Snoopi]

Was flying H2H in beta terrain.
Field 14 vs 11.
Got both tanks shot out and decided to try out new FM glide ratio from under 10k.
(was NE of 14 flying to 11)
I could fly with a VERY small nose down attitude with almost no E loss.
I flew halfway with auto level before speed dropped to 100knts, then BARELY dropped the nose and was 300kts in no time.
When i got back to the field, I had to fly a conventional pattern because I had way too much speed and it sure didn't what to bleed off. I still had to do a few very hard flat turns so I could get the flaps and gear out.

Before I would never have made it to the field at all.

[Chango]

Is there a way to get a figure for E retention??  Would that be zoom climb what?  Did they do this type of testing on WWII aircraft?  

There is a lot of talk about the ER being wrong but is there a way to test it and compare to Real World (TM) figures?

I havent tried getting in trouble (flat spins, stall, etc.)  but could it be that since you can hold e better now you just need to slow down more?  

The new FM seems more realistic than the old FM (im sorry but it sucked).  The E retention maybe a bit high, maybe! Lets see if there is a way to compare those RW figures.

With the old FM it was just way too easy to make deflection shots cause the enema could not pull G's to evade without stalling.  Now guys can actually evade dead 6 jumps.  I think this is pissing off all the 20k+ Altitude Monkeys!  

I want it as realistic as possible. Even if its not what we have right now.  

Frank "Chango" Smaltino

[Snoopi]

I Agree Chango !
Realism, not "hard for the sake of it"

RGR...E retention is the thing I notice most.
(duh.. since that was the whole point of the new FM)
Cross stick on approach or "overshoot force" with a little up elevator and almost no speed drop.
Be nice if we could find out if this is Real.
Not that I don't trust HTC.

Not Whining, just wondering.

[CyranoAH]

 

Originally posted by Snoopi:
I could fly with a VERY small nose down attitude with almost no E loss.
I flew halfway with auto level before speed dropped to 100knts, then BARELY dropped the nose and was 300kts in no time.

Agreed... I do not know the exact performances of those birds, but when I do some engine failure practices in the small plane I am learning to fly in -real life-, the maximum distance/rate of descent ratio is way different to that of AH.
Last night I got shot in the engine in a Nikki halfway between 13 and 1, at no more than 5k feet. I could do the whole trip back with no engine and still I had to overshoot to drain the excessive E (no sideslip, of course).

Hope this gets fixed, now the planes retain E far too well. How about something halfway between 1.03 and .04?

Daniel, aka CyranoAH

[sky_bax]

"How about something halfway between 1.03 and .04?"

That would be WB FM  

HOLD IT!!!!!  

Relax, just couldn`t help myself, he he  

Seriously? Needs a little work but is on the right track. Hell, all sims are in need of a little work.

Pros and cons, WB & AH both got em.


------------------
Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
 www.352ndFighterGroup.com
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney

[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 09-12-2000).]