Hangtime
In the morning after I feel bad that we got so heated discussion yesterday.
I still do believe that your statements were completely out of place and in bad taste but I could have handled it better like I will try to do now.
We have a purely technical discussion - whether a certain type of a space vehicle is better than another and what kind of administrative organisation (agency/private) is more efficient.
You had no call to accuse me of not being a patriot, being a greedy person or even an opponent of space development - all those are not true and have no bearing to the subject under discussion.
Yes, you've hit a button - you use typical propaganda tricks I grew up with in Soviet Union where opponent's motives were questioned instead of addressing his arguments. I would not be too prpud of it if I were you.
Ain't having a choice grand?? Sell it. Nobodys holding a pistol to yer head.. I am certainly thinking about that and do so when I can.
Here in America we pay for those things and others like the space program, the military and such with guess what.. Taxes. The American Way. No problem. When a government needs a fighter jet, several private companies come up with projects and then manufacture the best one and sell to the govenment. I only want the same approach to state-conducted space exploration.
And the less prosperous amongst us look at guys in your situation and laff in your face when you squeak about it. "Awww.. ain't it tough being affluent?? Some of those envious "less affluent" do not even realise how much they suffer as the result of the government mismanaging. The people who tend to notice and recongize such mismanagment are usually educated, smart and well-read - which in US makes them more likely to be wealthy. Which, according to you makes their opinion automartically suspect and their patriotism questioned by liberal spinmasters. Should we only use expertise of the bums on the street from now on?
So.. rather than stay in your own country and help it pull itself up into the 20th century you opted for the easy route.. You are talking obvious noncense here. First, I've left from the Socialest Soviet Union before it fell. I had as much chance to "help" the country as any North Koread does now. We had no rights or votes or whatever. If I engaged in a public discussion (which I did), before getting a first warning from KGB (which I got), the mere statement that the country is not perfect elicited accusations of bad patriotism
just like from you and invitation to go to America. Most russians confused constructive criticism with dislike rather than attempt to help - but unlike you they had excuse of being brainwashed. If I stayed here and worked to the best of my ability, it would be used to plug the holes and keep the bad system goind. If I engaged in outright sabotage, it would have hurt the people I knew.
Second, for all your mentionings of "American Way", you seem to believe that collectivism ratehr than free association of people engaged in mutually benefitting transactions is the substance of it. You are wrong.
you came here, where everything is just soooo much nicer. That incorrectly presumes I had the complete picture of the life in america, let alone could forsee future. Nothing is further rom the truth. I took my risks.
My family spilled blood to help make this nation and prserve it, How does that make a collectivist/socialist agenda you are pushing any less ruinous to this country?
Wow.. Damn.. now I'm an official socalist!! I see you do not like the idea. I am really glad to hear that. With some reading you can see where you are mistaken.
And I'd just love to hear about the causes you donate money too. Hehehhehhehe I do not feel comfortable writing about it here since all the claims are anonymous and unsubstantiated. I could claim anything at all and whatever I say, I can be accused by opponents of lying. Not that it would bear any relevance to the validity of my arguments. I donated 5 digits to the 9/11 fund. I spend 5 digits every year helping specific people to get ahead in life - become productive and contribting mebers of the society. My help comes with a lot of personal involvement and plenty of strings attached. I am not expecting the gov't to do that job for me and I do not look for any tax deductions. I also donate to education-related christian and jewish charities even though I am an atheist. I also support some educational foundations/institutions and think tanks - conservative and libertarian.
Nope.. because I distrust corporate entities even more than I distrust the government. NASA answers to the people, through the government. With a corporation you can vote your shares or opt out. NASA does not answer to anyone. Government is not interested in disclosing any flaws in the agency caused by decisions it approved a few years earlier. Congressmen do not change too often. Admitting the NASA mistakes would put the blame squarely on many present powerfull members. NASA is part of government. So they audit themselves.
I think you'd agree that having Enron running the Space Program would not be a hot idea. It failed, didn't it? Like any bad business should. I could care less about it though - I was not an investor or a business partner. Investing and diong business with someone always means risk - and government creating
perception cafety through regulation makes those people be more reckless in their choices.
And the last time I checked, in my Tax Bracket I'm paying 32%. Whats yours? I do not remember exactly - my wife does taxes. It's the top one, to be sure.
You come from a society thats conditioned it's subjects from birth in an entirely diffrent way from the way this nations society raises up it's citizens. The very first civics lesson I got was "Question Authority" What was yours? Tried to condition - succeeded with most, surely. But we learned exactly the same rhetoric I am hearing from you now - "I am not my governments puppet." "I am a citizen, not a subject." Even "Question Authority". We had plenty of magazines criticizing defficiencies in various state operations. You could criticise a lot - as long as you knew the limits. We had misuse of state property and authority widely discussed. You would be surprised if you learned more.
So forget the childhood. I see here exactly what you are saying and the method you are using in your arguments - so the conditions of your upbringing are curious but not really relevant.
Thats a rip.. miko, I do not hate the wealthy. I hate wealthy people who sneer at the 'serfs'. You misquote my statement same as you isrepresented my assesment statement as a boast. I was not sneering at the serfs - I claimed that we are serfs. People who had to work half of the year or more for government. And since the "wealthy" are in higher tax bracket, they are more serfs than less wealthy.
his toejam don't stink because he's got an Armani suit and a Mercedes. Subary.
It's all about attitude.. not wealth. A wealthy man grousing about taxes (and paying a significantly lower percentage of his earnings in taxes than a working stiff) will attract negative attention from the peanut gallery every time. If you imply me in that "wealthy" statement, due to progressive tax rates I pay higher percentage of my earnings than an average salary earner. But I am working for every cent I get.
Second. The point of my post was not complain about how much I pay but how arbitrary and nontransparently it is decided by some bureaucrat. I do not mind increased taxes - I want them increased honestly, by rate, not fudging with assessment values.
But you do not address that at all - just accuse me of not wanting to pay based on my insinuated personal character flaws.
I'm a citizen and a taxpayer. By choice. AND birth. That means I vote, and my money's in that shuttle program. Yep. it's MY shuttle program. And, when I vote this November, I'll give 'em my input. I say again, the only difference between the government and any private foundation is that government can use coercion and violence to achieve cooperation.
If you really believed that majority wanted to build shuttles or send tax money to Africa, you would not insist on forcing it on people. If you believe it should be forced on people - then your commitment to freedom and democracy is questionable.
Cheer up Miko.. nobody's asking you to fly in the damn thing. 
Even if I wanted and had money, I would not be allowed into US Shuttle program. I would have had a better chance if a better approach was used.
BTW, here is a letter from 1986 wanrning of exactly such disasted as had occured to Columbia:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/bartel1.html It's called "The Latest Shuttle Disaster" but applies to Challenger.
Let's keep it civil. I will try to keep my the personal details of my life out of the posts to reduce your temptarion to make discussion personal rather then on issues? Do you think I should create another name or can you handle the pressure?
miko
