Head to Head Merges

[sourkraut]

I don't seem to have a problem with these in the MA as I usually just focus on avoiding the HO and maybe try to get a quick side shot in as we pass. Then I typically extend if they zoom as they pass on by. If they don't zoom I might zoom on them to reverse.
 
Here's my problem. Been getting my butt kicked in HTH Ladder and I am losing it (usually) on the 1st merge. I try to dive slightly before the merge to gather speed and then zoom just as we merge (there is a pre-merge ceiling). I think what I am doing is zooming too much or pulling too hard, either way losing too much E. One particular match (against Shane), my opponent was able to zoom again after a very quick 2nd merge. And I was floundering and a dead duck. Most embarrassing.  It shouldn't be a question of significant E advantage either since we both take off in the same a/c from same alt at approx same time.
 
I guess I am back to basics. What kind of G's should I be pulling on the zoom and how much should I zoom (at what speed do I pull over the top?) Let's assume a P51D doing ~300-350 at merge.  
 
Any thoughts, any help?
Signed a big loser in the HTH Ladder
Sour

[Urchin]

Generally I pull as hard as I can through the first half or so, then ease up a bit so I can see what the other guy is doing.  

You may be going to fast coming in- if the other guy is doing 300 and you are doing 350 and you both pull as hard as you can to get around you will lose every time.  On the other hand, if the faster plane just goes up in a rope, the slow plane is pretty screwed, usually.

It honestly just takes a lot of practice to get merging down.

[mia389]

Something that Ive found to work In a HO merge is to dive eary like 6.0 out but not a  steep dive. Usally the other plane will dive too after you go under his belly go vertical do a 180 and you should have a shot. If this works means that when you dived your oppent dived after you, after passing his plane he should have more E and since you have less E you can make a tighter turn giving you a shot if oppent when vertical after passing you on intial merge. If oppent went strait for a ways then went vertical your gonna have a problem. Ive been working on this merge in the DA alot but timing is everything

[Xjazz]

Check this one:
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~frontacs/WBStored/ACM_BFM.html

[Shane]

Originally posted by sourkraut
Here's my problem. Been getting my butt kicked in HTH Ladder and I am losing it (usually) on the 1st merge. I try to dive slightly before the merge to gather speed and then zoom just as we merge (there is a pre-merge ceiling). I think what I am doing is zooming too much or pulling too hard, either way losing too much E. One particular match (against Shane), my opponent was able to zoom again after a very quick 2nd merge. And I was floundering and a dead duck. Most embarrassing.  It shouldn't be a question of significant E advantage either since we both take off in the same a/c from same alt at approx same time.
 Sour

looking at the film, it seemed you had enough e to go up again, especially if you were willing to use flaps, as i was.  would you like the film from my perspective? (a little too big to post here, even zipped.)

i had about 10mph on you at the merge due to my diving slightly lower.  maybe you just weren't expecting a double immelmann? plus if you notice, you took the 1st shot, and that's where i usually win the battle. i *know* the shot is most likely coming and am wiggling with a slight roll out of the way. that split second it takes you to commit to the shot is all i need to gain a slight advantage, continuing to go up, at which point by the time you check your rear view and see me going up and undamaged, you've become a little hesitant in trying to go back up again yourself.

at least this is the most common thing i've managed to learn about *the other guy* - obtained from numerous duels and MA encounters.

anyway if you want the film, i'll gladly zip and send.. approx 250kb.

[humble]

sourkraut...

There's a big differance between a merge in the MA and a merge in a "duel". Also, your using an exceptional 1 vs 1 stick as a benchmark. Shane is awfully tough to beat...you can do everything "right" and still lose:mad:

Basically you have three types of merges in a 1 vs 1 like that:

A "long merge" where your maximizing E retention at the expense of any angles...basically your blowing thru the merge and maximizing your E position...the only problem is normally you'll give up angles. This is pretty common if two guys are feeling each other out. Sometimes you'll give your six to a very well flown bandit however.

A "short merge" is basically an angles opener. You'll give up energy to get an angles edge. Alot of fights will end on the 1st merge...key is to get the good "under position and then get off the gas early to get your nose around quickly or use a "rudder slap" or other trick. One big key is getting this merge out of the pure vertical...you need to present an unexpected component to the merge...especially against someone like shane.

The last is the read and react merge....JASE was probably best I ever saw at that...Shanes Nath DMF RAM Cit all can be mind readers...there literally flying your merge for you and reacting to what you do. Thats just lots of experience combined with a good idea of the possibilities.

From Shanes post he won the merge...he had both angles (the under spot) and E. He also had vis on you...losing him for just a second can cost you (the really good sticks manage views very well). Sounded like he had the option of going short for a shot...or long for the rope (double E)...decided he could deny the shot and top you out. A small differance in merge makes a big differance in options. I'd guess you'd of been better of blowing thru the merge once you saw he had the under and going long...he's still have the edge but you'd get a 2nd merge with him either coming up hill or level. Other option would be to chop a bit so your nose got around 1st and spray him...you might make him break...also you can "fly the under" if he can't get enough extension on the rope.

Realistically,your just facing anexcellent 1 vs 1 stick. It's been awhile but I'd say I'd get 1 out of 5 from shane. Most of them were close but he just gets that 2-3% more out of what he has...bastid:(

[BigMax]

Read - Robert Shaw's Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering.

Explains all the different facets of merges and situations.

CYasUp!

[Ack-Ack]

Head on over to NetAces and read RocketMan's articles on the merge. Probably one of the best write ups in laymen's terms on merge tactics.


Ack-Ack

[wetrat]

The initial merge can either win or lose the duel for you. When Urchin started training me, he could have pummeled me off of every merge, and if not that, he'd at least be on my 6. Basically, just listen to Urchin. If his advice works for me, it'll work for you

And as for the MA... every time someone attempts to HO me, I'll merge with them, (provided it's not too hot in the area) whether they like it or not. I think it's only happened on 2 occasions that the other person merged as well, but they were both regulars in the DA. All you have to do is nose down and fly under them, and pull up as soon as you're right underneath. The pilot in question will probably be flying inverted spraying bullets at you, and won't be able to recover in time to keep you off their 6. That's the most common "merge" I encounter in the MA. The other type of "merge" is where the other guy doesn't invert for the shot... he simply noses down at me and hopes to hit me. These people invariably just zoom past after they miss me, and since I'm usually in a G10 or a dora, they don't get very far.

Doing this I have never been hit on the initial "merge," and have only died once... to one of the duelers, of course (forget who it was). I plan to make a few recordings for success with things like that in the MA.

[Urchin]

Sour, if you'd like me to work with you on merges, give me an email at shodges1@comcast.net .

[Tatzel]

I have this problem too since I never know what to do.  I read about diving to get separation for the lead turn, but sometimes when I do this we both dive and I think, how far do I need to dive, all the way to the ground?

I am so bad at this, I feel better if I just let him get on my tail and then go from there.  Of course, I hardly ever survive this but I seem to last longer.

I have noticed that whenever I am  in a situation where I have to think, what do I do now?  Then I will get shot down.

One thing I learned to do is make films.  Then I can see what the other plane is doing to get on my six.  So if anyone has films maybe they can post them!

Tatzel.