Author Topic: Why it is not possible to have a padlock.  (Read 1936 times)

Offline jihad

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2000, 01:30:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Andy Bush:
Hmmm...what's AGW?


A Group of Whiners.  

Offline Nash

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2000, 06:23:00 PM »
Great description of the padlock system Pyro and HT. I think the only thing that hasn't been explained yet is how a target is actually selected.

Manually? Put yer crosshairs on something and hit a key? Grab yer mouse and click on the plane? Padlock nearest bandit? Cyclable? etc. etc.

Any chance you could let us know?... it might alleviate a lot of (strange) anxiety.

Offline Brazos

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #62 on: July 27, 2000, 08:19:00 PM »
This does not sound good.

I can't imagine how target selection would not be dumbed down. Guess we'll see. Snaps may use your thumb as a neck, but it's -your- thumb doing the tracking, not the computer. HTC may have removed much of the auto-tracking from their pl, but at what cost in time. Geeez, imo the new arenas and the terrain editor are needed so badly.

Offline Baddawg

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2000, 08:42:00 PM »
Peanut butter and lettuce!  The lettuce offers a slight crunch and  moisture to the palate. This only is  succulent  when one has the freshest white bread with crisp fresh lettuce, and  a smooth PB like Skippy or squirrel.
Any thing else is uncivilized.

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Aces High Correspondent for  www.dogfighter.com

Offline Rattler

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2000, 12:23:00 AM »
Not enough information was released to discearn whether or not HT has been able to
implement a "Padlock" fairly to all with out
giving those that use it,a way to game the game.

1)does one need to positively LOCATE the aircraft with a mouse click to aquire.OR,can one switch to the SIX view and smack the Padlock key to look for bandits they haven't actually been able to spot yet?

2)Will the user be able to padlock a friendly and or enemy aircraft? OR, will the padlock determine this automatically for the user before the plane has entered ICON RANGE & realistic distance to actually determine friend or foe ?

These issues are real issues that have hampered the concept of Padlock by the so called Elitists.

They are issues that will increase SA beyond Realistic Abilities if skirted.

And if skirted beyond Real Life Abilities,then the concept behind the quest to implement a more natural head tracking ability has caused more damage than it repaired.

Rattler
The Outlaws
An Online WWII Virtual AeroSquadron dating back to 1992




[This message has been edited by Rattler (edited 07-28-2000).]
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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2000, 12:57:00 AM »
i aint bellybutton kissin , but im with htc on this one sounds like a cool idea. cant wait to try it .

will it be active in films yet or ever ? seems like it is a step tward the views being shown , like where you were looking in films and that is cool .

Offline Nash

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2000, 01:38:00 AM »
Yup.. They've explained everything very clearly wrt padlock and it sounds fine to me so far. I just wish they'd let us know about the target selecting part of it, so we can perhaps put this issue to bed.

Offline Maniac

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2000, 01:49:00 AM »
"If you really are that shallow as to quit AH over the padlock system then please don't let the door hit your bellybutton on the way out,"

To me that sounds like the old WB attitude heheee.

As i said in the other thread i will give it an fair chance...

Regards.

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WB : -nr-1-


   
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Offline LLv34_Snefens

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2000, 06:58:00 AM »
I like that we are getting this as I think it can only increase the number of people willing to spend money on the game.
At least it is one of the bigger issues I hear spoken, when doing propaganda in the EAW community  

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Offline Andy Bush

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2000, 07:08:00 AM »
Once upon a time, back in the 70s, a guy by the name of Jim Hall built a race car known as the Chaparral. It was very fast, in fact it blew everyone else away...but not just solely because of its speed.

The Chaparral also had a new feature...fans and ducting that actually produced an area of low pressure under the car that resulted in extra downforce. This extra force allowed the Chaparral to zip through turns at speeds that its competitors couldn't match. As a result, the Chaparral won the races.

Now the other race car people let out a howl that you wouldn't believe. 'Unfair', they cried. 'Not realistic', they argued. 'We like to do it differently', some complained. Others sniffed and said that it had always been done the old way in the other races, so why change now?

And so the stage was set. Did the racers adopt the new technology to achieve better performance...or did they send the upstart packing? What do you think?

I know...you've never heard of the Chaparral, right?

Andy

Offline StSanta

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2000, 07:27:00 AM »
Heh, nice analogy Andy.

Not sure it is appropriate here though. I could use it for powerups, extra lives, heat seeking missiles and whatnot.

I want to have this sim as a hardcore one. Part of the hardcore is keeping track of the enemy on yer own, not letting a computer take over the taskload.

Unless the lowered taskload is compensated for by adding some negative aspect to it, it will be an advantage, fair or unfair. I do not consider "target fixation" such a one based on the description from HTC on how the padlock system will be implemented.

It will be interesting, and I have much faith in HTC; if anyone can pull off a realistic one, it's them.



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StSanta
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Offline Westy

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2000, 08:17:00 AM »
 Not sure the analogy is on target. (and not sure why I'm wading into this topic once again, but here it goes...) My beef with padlock in a WWII "SIM" perhaps has to do with what I think padlock is or what padlcok had been in the past. With padlock I press a button, the computer then hi-lights the closest enemy bogy for me, including ones I never might have seen otherwise and then tracks it for me. This relieves me of the 'burden' of simulating, or learning to simulate, a pilot conscientiously having to track a bogy by using the only manual tools (arrow keys, hat switch) available to me in a computer world. In other words I don't have to do anything but drive the airplane towards the kill.  To me that is GulfWar FA-18 technology  and NOT remotley like anything WWII-ish. A perfect world would have us all using Virtual Reality helmets. But we don;t have that. IMO a padlock is a crutch for folks who don;t have the desire or patience to learn to do something manually. With keystrokes we manually raise gear, manipulate the flaps, shoot guns, arm/drop bombs, look at maps and talk to each other via text or vox. If we "automate" or even semi-automate the views, which is the core of situational awareness and hence such a HUGE integral part of any WWI sim or game with aircombat, why not automate these other functions also?
 I'll reserve any comment on what HTC has in mind till I try it. I'm just offering a view on my bias against padlock views in a WWII (or even WWI, Korea or Vietnam) era aircombat sim like Aces High - imo FA-II and AW3 are games and can have it for al I care.

 I also am a realist and see HTC's need for more customers. I'm not dumb  

  -Westy

Offline Andy Bush

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2000, 08:21:00 AM »
StSanta

I too hope the view will not have any of the 'unrealistic' features that other padlocks have had.

With regard to difficulty, I'm not sure that padlocks make life easier. Just look at the Janes padlock technique...that thing will lawndart you in a heartbeat! Then, I remember the old Falcon3 padlock. So many of its fans liked it because it was hard to learn and therefore gave an advantage to those that had figured it out.

As some know, I favor the external 'player to target' view when it comes to actual 1v1 BFM. But this view also is hard to learn and has its share of artificialities.

I'm still unsure what the problem is. Many of the anti-padlock opinions come from folks who otherwise don't mind a bit telling us of their skill in manipulating the snap views. (Because that's what they do. They don't out-BFM their opponents...they simply out-view them.) OK, fine! Then they should have no problem outflying the padlock pilot. If these snap view folks skill level is so good that they can keep track of the bandit no matter what, then who cares what method is used to track the bandit?

It seems to me that if the bandit is being tracked equally effectively by two opponents...one a padlock pilot, the other a snap view pilot...then the outcome will go with the better pilot, regardless of view type.

This subject always generates such unbelievable whining.

Whiners that complain because a sim doesn't have their favorite features...OK, see you later.

Whiners that constantly play the 'realism' card, most of whom have never sat in a fighter cockpit, let alone flown one. To them I say, go see your recruiter, get some real fighter time, and then come back and preach your 'realism'.

Until then, let's all chill out. Let's have fun and enjoy the comraderie of our fellow pilots.

Andy

Offline Andy Bush

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2000, 08:40:00 AM »
Westy

With regard to the 'auto-padlock', I am in complete agreement.

Too many sims have a 'padlock the closest enemy' feature...a poor simulation of game play for all the reasons you stated.

But...that type of padlock operation can be omitted without any degradation of the view. Inasmuch as the mouse is still usable on the AH screen, it seems a simple mouse click is the answer to this issue. Use the snap views to locate the bandit, mouse click the padlock into operation, and then exit to the snap views when needed.

As for the 'game' versus 'sim' issue, I think these are all games. The real issue is the 'arcade-ness' of particular features. The auto-padlock is definitely an arcade feature for me. On the other hand, high fidelity avionics, life-like switch methodologies, and true-to-physics weapons delivery...now we're talking simulation!

Andy

Offline Duckwing6

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Why it is not possible to have a padlock.
« Reply #74 on: July 28, 2000, 08:54:00 AM »
umm andy since when do REAL aircraft have an outside view??  

i'd say cann that idea ... unless for H2H where you want to enable it, the TA and offline.

Anyhow the Padlock view HTC proposes doesn't give any other views that the normal "snapper" has therfore no advantage IF the problem of aquiring a Lock (you'll have to look and see the dot first) is solved ...

(maybe clicking on the con? or track only possible when con in ID range?)

DW6


(ahh gues we posted at the same time andy ...)

[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 07-28-2000).]