Author Topic: The IT idnustry and outsourcing (Read 645 times)

StSanta · « **on:** February 05, 2003, 10:21:21 AM »

Seen a few posts that mention that lots of outsourcing is done to India where wages are much lower.

Some suggest that those of us (me inlcuded) that studied com. sci. thinking we'd have safe careers ahead are toejam outta luck.

Yes, there is outsourcing. Yes, the IT industry is suffering badly.

I dobt, however, that it is the end of software development done in western nations.

Medium and small companies need software that is directly fitted to their business model. And you do NOT outsource your core business model. Giving info to an outside company might mean revealing secrets you don't want to reveal.

So there'll be some in house development.

But perhaps people are right.Perhaps I'd need to get another education now. Perhaps the third world is taking all our SW development work. And thereby all the expertise. We might hire them as programmers now, but pretty soon they'll start their own companies, and we'll CEO them no more.

Am a bit worried, to say the least. Dunno what field of work I could possibly tolerate. And I am 27. I want a job and a life, not more studies, possibly studying something I don't have a passion for.

Ugh, this is depressing :/

Kanth · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2003, 10:24:52 AM »

you have a cowd?

I'm one of those people who's worrying about the outsourcing but I'm going to guess that alot of it will have to be software engineering because alot of the support for network, server and desktop needs to remain local and hands on.

28sweep · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2003, 10:51:17 AM »

Ya-I made a post recently about Oleg’s domination of the sim industry. He (Oleg) has a distinct advantage doing his development work in Russia. What do you think he pays his developers? 200/month ..or less. He can pick from the very best and pay them nothing. He markets and sells his product in the West. People pay US$ or Euro$ for his product…what a business model!!
Its Ironic that India is taking so much work away from the IT industry here in the US. Many of the layed off workers are in-fact Indian Immigrants who were lured here by our Congress when they loosened visa requirements for IT pro’s. Now we have a glut of IT workers here-both foreign born and US. What is happening to these foreign born workers…are they going home..NO. Unscrupulous contract firms are taking advantage of them by paying them WAY less than market rates for their services. No US worker will work at those wages. This is happening here in the US. This + oversees outsourcing is killing the IT industry. I got a friend delivering Pizza’s here with a masters in computer science while foreign born Indians work at less than market value HERE in Michigan…something is wrong .

Skuzzy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2003, 11:01:38 AM »

You guys are only seeing the surface of the problem.

American educated IT personel (and no offense intended to those in that job class) do not get the education that others around the world get.
Our education system, generally speaking, in the area of IT and in many other areas of technology is very poor and outdated. The only way to get a good handle on technology related education is to attend schools like MIT or others approaching that level.

Companies are coming to grips with this and looking to other nations to get the properly educated personnel to handle the ever growing complexities of the IT industry.
At the same time, companies do not want to hire people with 20+ years experience (I know, I went through that) as they simply deem it too expensive.

Hiring fresh faces out of college is what companies are doing these days, which brings us back to the education problem.

A guy fresh out of an Indian college has a much better chance of landing a job in a company in the U.S. than I do.

Pongo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2003, 11:07:02 AM »

Thats not out sourcing.
In the industry that is called Offshore developement.
Where as work between the US and Canada is called Near shore developement.

ra · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2003, 11:54:27 AM »

Quote

You guys are only seeing the surface of the problem.

Skuzzy,

I think the educational differences you describe are the surface of the problem, underneath it's all about relative cost. In India, a computer science student can go from college straight to a $10K/year programming job, which is probably equivalent to about $130K in the US. If he wants my job there's no way I can compete with $10K/year, a grocery bagger makes more than that. But if he wants $130K, I'm completely safe, no matter how much more educated than me he is. Not all programming work requires a guru, usually just a competent, experienced programmer can get the job done.

But he only wants $10K, so US programmers gradually find it harder and harder to find work, and no amount of education will close that gap.

ra

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2003, 12:41:06 PM »

scuzzy my wife spent about a year going to lamar tech getting her ccna.

and get this, it wasent a joke she spend 2 or 3 hours a nite studying . nothing but A's the university hired her while still in class (she fixed a school server that had been screwed up for months during a training class)

she while still working at university prepared a excellent entry resume with 4 years experience waiting tables in one resuraunt and 9 months or so of doing 4 hours a day at univercity help desk/upgrade center. picture perfect she literaly loves computers/servers would spend dosens of extra hours at school just to get acess to the servers to experiment, she friggin cried when i gave her her first piece of hardware, a router the economy crashes we run out of cash so she drops out after takin all the comp related classes for comp networking degree takes ccna and passes first time.

then literaly hundreds of resumes sent and online applications filled out and not one responce. not one

shes doing data encoding such a waste.

its not dieing its dead.

Saintaw · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2003, 01:08:53 PM »

Worked on a project with a couple of devs from Calcuta, wow. I was impressed by their speed for one thing, and they were organised like i will never be

.

I't harder to get non ASP or CFM related jobs here in Europe... I still see a lot of open jobs in the US/UK/Canada though.

I'm contracting right now, but still looking for a perm job, so... I'm still listed in the agencies... on 10 Offers I get a Day, 9 are SAP and the last one is usualy tech support, or ASP.

I might just have to sell my soul to the devil one day

28sweep · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2003, 01:17:33 PM »

SunKing · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2003, 01:20:11 PM »

Just lost my Tech postition to outsourcing 2 weeks ago. seems the IT industry is a dying breed. Need to get a county job... set for life.

Swoop · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:47:38 PM »

User support.

Remember those words.......to any IT contractor those words can strike fear in the soul, but in a few years thats what we'll all be doing cos rest assured.....somewhere there's a numpty who has no clue what he's doing and is about to call the helpdesk.

AKIron · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:55:38 PM »

IMO the IT industry grew rapidly due to growing the infrastructure in the 90's. Apparently many assumed the growth would continue. Growth always demads more resources than equilibrium. Growth slowed, jobs disappeared. There are still jobs in the industry but competition is fierce. Good time to be self- employed.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:56:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Swoop
User support.

Remember those words.......to any IT contractor those words can strike fear in the soul, but in a few years thats what we'll all be doing cos rest assured.....somewhere there's a numpty who has no clue what he's doing and is about to call the helpdesk.

Doing that now, in a requirements sort of way. We have a user hotline, but generally it doesn't get many calls. Engineers give us their requirements, we communicate to the vendor their needs, vendor makes changes, we test them, and then make the change to the software. Its been pretty stable even with our decline of employees because, as Swoop said...there's always someone who needs help.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2003, 02:59:04 PM »

I'd also like to add that survival for me has been "knowing alittle about everything, and knowing alot about nothing"...in other words, flexible, willing to learn, and going to school constantly (on or off hour training) to stay current on whats coming around the bend.

nuchpatrick · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2003, 03:06:16 PM »

I dunno..out sourced IT sucks!!

As an example.. I get agriavted when I call Dell tech support which based in India..and I get someone who doesn't speak english quiet right. And trying to explain that I need a new mother board becasue it's dumped the IDE controller. Yet after an hour worth of talking with this yahoo he say's well I beleive you have a bad board!!

I'm not pleased with the out sourced IT's.