Author Topic: The IT idnustry and outsourcing (Read 644 times)

Skuzzy · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2003, 03:11:26 PM »

I agree on that assessment for keeping a job Rip, but getting the job is the most difficult part.

I know, as I sent hundreds of resumes out when my company went under, and did not get a single call. Overall, I think I have a very well rounded set of skills with experience and education backing me.
It was a mind numbing experience for me. It really never occurred to me that I would not be able to get work, given the skill sets I carry around.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2003, 03:14:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
I agree on that assessment for keeping a job Rip, but getting the job is the most difficult part.

I know, as I sent hundreds of resumes out when my company went under, and did not get a single call. Overall, I think I have a very well rounded set of skills with experience and education backing me.
It was a mind numbing experience for me. It really never occurred to me that I would not be able to get work, given the skill sets I carry around.

I've always kept several "Skill sets", a Machinist, an NC Programmer, a Tool and Die maker, now an Engineering Applications Analyst. Worst comes to worst, I can always go back into restaurant management. The last thing you want to do today is shoe-box yourself into one localized skill set.

fd ski · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2003, 03:17:28 PM »

outsourcing IT is bad... but i like my 600$ PC...
importing cars is bad ... but i like cars for reasonable price...
importing textiles is bad... but i won't pay more then 15$ for a t-shirt

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm in IT and directly affected by the very things you talk about. However, i think you're looking at a dying phenomena. India is not a third world coutry, by any standard. It's education level is simply amazing by any measure. There aren't many other countries like that. Ever wondered why noone outsources to Pakistan?
I think India, Russia and Eastern Block coutrnies are the only ones falling in the category of "pay little for skilled workers" types. This however is a self fixing situation. 5 yeaars ago in Poland you could find programmers for 200$ per month. Last year, friend of mine who has a software business said he pays about 2000$ / month to experianced programmers.
Russia will come around as well.

Besides... IT is like any other skill. True talent will shine though

Ripsnort · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2003, 06:14:53 PM »

In 1991, the PM of India said "Asia is capital of hardware technology, we will be a nation known as a capital in software" and free college for IT/IS was given to residents. We're just now seeing the results of what is to be the tip of the iceburg (I'm watching it happen at a company with 150,000 employees)

28sweep · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2003, 09:20:39 PM »

If you don't think India is a third world country then your a moron. Its a country with a population approaching 1 billion..most live in desperate poverty. I promise you there will be a steady supply of cheap programmers coming from there for years..India can't be compared to Poland my friend.

Oh and Skuzzy about the education thing. I work with a programmer from India. She's has a master's degree in computer science and until she immigrated to the US-she had NEVER WORKED ON A COMPUTER!!!! All of her programming work was on pen and paper. She is a terrible programmer....she works for a contract firm that pays her 30% less than market rate because of her visa status and she is taking the job of an American.

rickod · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2003, 09:50:53 PM »

I have been in the MIS/IT field for 7 years
I started the MSN project When we had 40 people on it
I have been out of work since sept of last year
I start at schnieder national driving 18 wheelers feb 10th

U.S. school counselors now tell students to expect 15 career changes in there lives .
Ive been thru 3 career fields and am only 33

Life sux You adapt and move on

Paxil · « **Reply #21 on:** February 05, 2003, 10:39:51 PM »

I don't fear my job to outsourcing, even though I know my company is doing it in some areas. Mostly with legacy systems and languages, systems that are already on the way out the door, but are expensive to maintain until then. These are the types of things being outsourced right now. The programmers being replaced, could have took it upon themselves to update their skills. I love all my programming brothers and sisters... but it is kind of 'Lemming' like to see technology change and not change with it when your job is to support it. As for new development, at least in my environment, I'm not sure you could save money outsourcing because you really have to understand your customers business to be able to see where you can help them the most. Heck... 66% of our developers WERE contractors, but were told to take a job with the company or find other work. Some make 1/3 to 1/4 of what they did... but it is still a decent living.

Unfortunately a few years ago, the market was flooded a bit with 'boot camp' certs and WYSIWYG devs who really didn't know what they were doing. Anyway... the glory days of throwing gobs of money at IT personnel might be over *sniff*, but there is still a demand for good programmers and IT personnel.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2003, 07:31:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by rickod
You adapt and move on

SHACK!(Thks Funked)

StSanta · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2003, 08:12:13 AM »

Skuzzy wrote:

American educated IT personel (and no offense intended to those in that job class) do not get the education that others around the world get.
Our education system, generally speaking, in the area of IT and in many other areas of technology is very poor and outdated. The only way to get a good handle on technology related education is to attend schools like MIT or others approaching that level.

That's the funny thing Skuzzy. A computer science degree from Aalborg university in Denmark means just one thing - computer science.

In the US, you can put together a program. Sure, you have some mandatory classes, but you can get an Ms, even though you spent two years studying things that aren't related to computer science. Think you call it a 'minor' or something.

Here, comp. sci. is just that. Not a day is spent on anything else. if you want a Ms, spend all time with comp. sci.

I haven't got an Ms, still got two more years for that. OTOH, all the time I've spent in school have been working with computer science. I know my toejame - graduated fourth of my year. But still because there are so many unemployed IT people out there with more experience, I am finding that getting a job ain't easy.

This despite the fact that I KNOW that I am better than people with Ms's, who've done philosophy or whatnot as a minor.

It's frustrating to say the least.

But I'll get a job eventually. IT sector is hit hard right now, but as soon as the economy turns around, they'll start putting money into the IT departments. The last company i was at an interview for had fired lots of people (International Business Systems) but have now turned it around.

The example with Poland is interesting. I do believe that the indian programmers won't be cheap forever. then there's this thing of producing reliable software close to the customer. You'd need a complete design before you could outsource the coding bit. And there'd still be maintenance and upgrading. Some say that the biggest cost in SW development isn't the development itself, but the running costs of maintaining the systems.

Am off - got some more resumes to send in. Laters d00ds.

Pongo · « **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2003, 10:28:04 AM »

When our company partners with Indian companies all the business design and a technical designer are from our comaany.
They will typically staff a technical architect and all the developers.
They write very very very good code.
We had to send a designer to Deli to get them on track on the last project though. As they were writing the wrong code. Oh well. He wanted to go to Deli for a month anyway.
Here in BC we have a very large population of East Indians and collaboration of that type makes good sense.