Author Topic: A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.  (Read 391 times)

Offline beet1e

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I recently had the pleasure of exchanging a few emails with a military serviceman who will shortly be serving his country and, indeed, most of us who read this board IMO in the forthcoming conflict with Iraq. I gave an account of two Iraqis I met shortly after the Gulf War, and will reproduce it here (edited) in blue text.

I'd like to tell you about a couple of ordinary Iraqis I met in 1991, not long after the Gulf War. I went with Cathie, my American wife, to Tenerife for Christmas 1991. It's one of the Canary Islands off the coast of Africa, and it was nice and warm for Xmas. In the evenings would have a few drinks at a nearby German bar called Monika's. There was a casino nearby where we played a bit of blackjack, and a couple next to us who we met again afterwards in Monika's. The gentleman's name was Hommet, and his wife was Lydia, or something like that. They ordered in German and spoke to the others there in German, and we assumed they were German. And then they told us they were Iraqis! We were both surprised, and embarrassed to a degree. We arranged to meet again the next night, although it was brief and we had time only for a drink, so the next night we arranged that all four of us would have dinner at Monika's. By that time, we had got to know eachother quite well, and I said to Cathie that as the friendship progressed, we were going to have to be ready with what to say if we got on to the subject of the Gulf War with Iraq. Here we were - a Limey, and a Yank, about to have dinner with two Iraqis shortly after the Gulf War! You might think that they had issues with us, but they didn't.

They treated us like Royalty. Could not have been nicer.

It became apparent that Hommet and Lydia had had their own discussion over what to do when the conversation moved inevitably to what had happened earlier that year. Indeed, Hommet said something to which the only reaction was for me to ask them what they thought of their leaders. Hommet leaned across the table, and with great emotion in his voice said something like this: "Saddam Hussein is the worst animal, the most evil creature ever to contaminate the earth. He is worse than Adolf Hitler, worse even than Joseph Stalin. People have been killed only for being different. If you were to complain about the price of bread rolls at a restaurant, you could be persecuted, not because the price of bread is important, but because you have dared to rise up to complain".  I don't think I've ever seen such hatred in a man's face as in this Iraqi gentleman's face as he spoke of Saddam that night. Hommet and Lydia are exiles from Iraq. Hommet left in 1985 and his wife followed in 1987. They settled in Germany, he running a used cars business and she running a language school. They can never go back, until Saddam is ousted. At the end of the evening, Hommet insisted on paying for everything, warm handshakes all round.


This conflict will be about the removal of WMD, with the removal of Saddam as a by-product. And when he's gone, there will be millions of happy Iraqis - provided that we are allowed to finish the job this time. I don't think there will be any ill will from the Iraqi people towards their liberators - quite the opposite I believe.

Offline Vulcan

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Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
This conflict will be about the removal of WMD, with the removal of Saddam as a by-product. And when he's gone, there will be millions of happy Iraqis - provided that we are allowed to finish the job this time. I don't think there will be any ill will from the Iraqi people towards their liberators - quite the opposite I believe.


As much as I agree with the removal of Saddam the more I learn about his regime the more I realize the removal of this tyrant will have dire consequences in years to come.

I see an Iraq, without Saddam, but being the new fundamentlist Muslim state on the block.

Catch 22.

Offline Dowding

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A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2003, 04:16:04 AM »
Not really Vulcan, the country is mainly Sunni Muslim, as compared to the fundamentalist Shi'ite. Iraq is a secular nation.

Iraq is actually ripe for being a Western ally. Its people are educated, technological and not religiously indoctrinated. The biggest problem, post-Saddam will be stopping the Sunnis and Shi'ites trying to kill each other, and stopping them both from trying to kill the Kurds and stopping all of them from trying to kill the peace-keepers.

Post Afghanistan, it was estimated $20 billion was required to get the country on its feet again. The international community has pledged barely $5 billion. I believe the British gave more money to the US than it did to Afghanistani humanitarian aid. The chances of Iraq receiving a similar 'treatment' are at least lessoned by the presence of oil. Reliable oil supplies require at least some political stability.

Iraq is far from a homogenous society. Before the British lumped all the tribes together into one arbitrary State, it was very disparate. I should think the tribal nature of the society, surpressed by Saddam for so long, will surface as everyone fights for a piece of the action.

There could be a real opportunity for a very West-friendly state to be formed in prime Mid-East real estate. Maybe it the West could seize it.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Saurdaukar

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A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2003, 08:34:45 AM »
Good read Beatle.

Offline Toad

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A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2003, 09:08:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
I believe the British gave more money to the US than it did to Afghanistani humanitarian aid.  


Am I too sensitive or do you always include a US/UK dick-measuring contest in every post?

Maybe it's me; maybe it's because you seem to sieze upon the smallest nits in any post of mine to pick at.

So here's a pick at one you your nits. It moved me to a quick Google search.

Where are you getting your numbers? What totals do you show for "the British?"

UK pledges £200m Afghan aid

Quote
Britain has pledged more than £200m over the next five years[/color] to help rebuild war-ravaged Afghanistan, International Development Secretary Clare Short announced on Monday.....

The UK will contribute a fifth of the EU's donation to the international fund, expected to total one billion euros over five years.

The US said it would offer almost $300m (£208.5m) in the coming year....


And


 OFFICE OF U.S. FOREIGN DISASTER ASSISTANCE (OFDA)

Quote
TOTAL USG Humanitarian Assistance FY 2002 $201,658,831

TOTAL USG Humanitarian Assistance FY 2001 $183,107,625

TOTAL USG Humanitarian Assistance to Afghanistan FY 2001/2002 $384,766,456


And that is just the Humanitarian Assistance. There's OTHER US Government giving and US private giving as well.

Now maybe you just unintentionally yanked out your yardstick. Or maybe you were trolling and just got a strike. Maybe I just woke up in a bad mood.

But it does seem to me there's always a "poke" in your posts.

If I'm incorrect, please accept my apology.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Dowding

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A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2003, 09:23:15 AM »
Apology accepted.

If you actually read my post, you'll notice I was not comparing US and UK donations to Afghanistan - I was saying that the UK actually gave money to the US. I'm still not entirely sure why - maybe I was only half listening to where I heard it. I believe it was some kind of debt, perhaps something to do with borrowed US military supplies. Either way it eclipsed what the UK donated to Afghanistan, apparently.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2003, 09:26:55 AM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Toad

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A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2003, 09:38:16 AM »
Sorry,

I read too fast and interpreted the "to" as a "than". Clearly, I'm predisposed to view your posts in a negative light.

I apologize and I'll try to do better.

My only excuse is that last week was an extremely bad week for me personally and I'm still not at peace with something that I personally had to do even though it was undoubtedly the "right" thing to do.

Again, my apologies.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Dowding

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A timely reminder of what Iraqis think of Saddam, and what they think of us.
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2003, 09:47:17 AM »
Nothing to apologise for, really. Re-reading what I wrote, I can see how it could be taken that way.

I've done it many times before, but then I tend to let my imagination get the better of my judgement. ;)

Hope everything is ok, mate.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.