Thankfully Saddam is fully cooperating and no longer changinig terms of agreements!

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
obviously not many Americans have the balls to question the little sociopath.
__________________

I have my doubts about Bush.  we tell Iraq that if you don't co-operate we will go to war.  then every time he meets a demand, Bush says something like 'it doesn't mean anything, he is just trying to avoid the war'.  isn't that the point of threatening Husein with war?  to get him to comply in order to avoid the war?

I think Bush is pretty set on the idea that getting compliance in little bits every six months isnt going to cut it.  Saddam is just delaying.  Just because he meets 6 new demands out of 83 doesnt mean he is "cooperating."  He isnt going to disarm peacefully, anyone who thinks its even a remote possibility is fooling themselves.

The bigger issue here, however... is the refusal of Germany, France, and Belgium to give defense forces to Turkey.  If no military aid and support for the US isnt a violation of the NATO treaty, the Turkey issue certainly is.  (As I understand the NATO treaty - if a member state requests defense, it MUST be provided, regardless of external circumstances.  This was presumably to avoid another Poland.)

Perhaps if France shared a border with Iraq and didnt pump so much money into their oil fields they would have a different viewpoint.

[straffo]

The bigest fear of turkey is a free Kurdistan not Iraq.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by straffo
The bigest fear of turkey is a free Kurdistan not Iraq.

I dunno if I would classify it as a "fear" but it is most definately a concern, yes.  They wont stand for it, but theres not much they could do about it.

[Dowding]

They wont stand for it, but theres not much they could do about it.

You mean apart from bombing Kurdish villages, like they have been for the last couple of years?

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by Dowding
You mean apart from bombing Kurdish villages, like they have been for the last couple of years?

There isnt anything they can do about the creation of the state.  What they drop on it afterwards is up for debate.

[Dowding]

There isnt anything they can do about the creation of the state.

Apart from bombing Kurdish villages, like they have been doing for the last couple of years?

What they drop on it afterwards is up for debate.

But not what they drop on it before?

[Preon1]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers.  less than half of americans aprove of going to war without UN aproval (it's been a week or so since I've had much time to check out the news. but last I heard it was somewhere around 65% against war without UN aproval)

recent polls say otherwise:

Washington Post
February 11, 2003
Pg. 14

Most Support Attack On Iraq, With Allies

Poll Finds Renewed Backing for War

By Richard Morin and Claudia Deane, Washington Post Staff Writers

A majority of Americans support attacking Iraq even without the approval of the United Nations, provided that the United States has the backing of some key allies, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Nearly 6 in 10 Americans said they would endorse military action to topple Iraqi President Saddam Hussein over the objections of the U.N. Security Council if the United States is supported by close allies such as Britain, Australia and Italy. The governments of those countries have been among the strongest supporters of military strikes against Iraq.

In important ways, the latest survey documents how President Bush has managed in a few weeks to refocus national attention on the crisis with Iraq and renew public support for taking military action in the next few weeks.

Bush's job approval rating, which had spiraled steadily downward through 2002 and into January, has rebounded and now stands at 64 percent. Support for military action is far broader and deeper than opposition to it. A growing majority say negotiating with Iraq won't work. And the proportion of the public that wants the war to begin in a few weeks rather than a few months has never been higher.

The survey also found that a majority of the public remain open to a postwar role for the United States in Iraq. But most Americans are unwilling to commit the United States to the kind of postwar rebuilding effort that many inside and outside the administration say will be essential to bringing economic and political stability to the country.

Fifty-six percent said they oppose the postwar rebuilding efforts in Iraq if the United States would have to keep troops in the country for several years and spend $15 billion a year, the most conservative publicly available estimates of what it would take to stabilize a post-Hussein Iraq.

Opposition is fairly strong even among Republicans (46 percent), who otherwise are strong backers of the president's positions on Iraq.

Taken together, the poll results suggest that Americans are far more willing to wage war than to do what may be necessary to bring a lasting peace to Iraq -- views that could change as the Bush administration moves from winning support for the war to persuading the public to support ambitious plans to rebuild postwar Iraq.

A total of 1,001 randomly selected adults were interviewed Feb. 6 to 9 for this poll. Margin of sampling error for the overall results is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Americans clearly sense these are troubling times at home and abroad. More than 7 in 10 said they are worried about the situations in Iraq and North Korea, and nearly as many expressed concern about the national economy.

The survey shows how the public has rallied around Bush during this time of national crisis. Six in 10 approve of the way Bush is handling the Iraq situation, up 11 points in three weeks. More Americans say Bush is doing a good job dealing with North Korea than disapprove of the president's performance. But fewer than half -- 47 percent -- like the way Bush is managing the economy, a slight improvement in recent weeks.

The survey found support for war has surged since mid-January, a boost that began with Bush's State of the Union address and was sustained by Secretary of State Colin L. Powell's address last week to the U.N. Security Council.

Two in 3 Americans support going to war, unchanged from immediately after the State of the Union speech but up 9 percentage points in less than a month. Half the public continues to support U.S. action if the United Nations opposes war -- a proportion that rises to 57 percent if at least some allies join the United States. On the Sunday morning talk shows, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice made repeated references to the "18 European countries" that support disarming Hussein.

Support for war remains far stronger than opposition to it. Two-thirds of those who favor attacking Iraq said there is little chance they will change their minds. But more than half of all opponents -- 53 percent -- acknowledge they are wavering and could switch.

One reason for the broad and deep support for war is that the public's confidence that diplomacy will be successful is diminishing. Fewer than a third -- 30 percent -- said there is at least some chance negotiations with Iraq will work, down from 38 percent in a Post-ABC survey conducted three weeks ago. (In contrast, 2 in 3 believe negotiations will successfully conclude the confrontation with North Korea, though the proportion expressing confidence is also down from last month.)

Another reason is that an overwhelming majority of Americans now believe there is clear, convincing evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and is hiding them from U.N. inspectors. Seven in 10 believe Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, and 6 in 10 believe Hussein is trying to develop nuclear arms.

A majority -- 55 percent -- now believe that Iraq has provided direct support to the al Qaeda terrorist group, up from 49 percent in a survey conducted immediately after Powell addressed the Security Council.

And Americans, 56 percent to 33 percent, said Iraq poses a greater threat to the United States than North Korea, the other "axis of evil" nation in the headlines recently for its apparent renewed efforts to develop nuclear weapons.

edit:  of course, nobody should let their vews be swayed by a poll

[Hangtime]

I love it.

Europeans are correct.. we are a nation of warmongers.. and if rebuilding Iraq will get us another grateful nation like France, then screw it; leave the place a smoking wreck when we get through with it.

Gotta love polls!

The media is gonna fan up the flames, we're gonna bomb the hell outta baghdad, then we're gonna put the UK in charge of the Oil Lease deals for Europe.

hehehehhehhe..

[mauser]

Something I STILL remember about Saddam... remember the little
video clip of him after he invaded Kuwait trying to make nice nice
to the little boy (wasn't he from the UK?)?  You could tell the boy
wasn't happy, I thought I remember his fists being clenched but
his arms lowered at his sides.  Despite this Saddam patting him
on the head, smiling, etc.  I don't think we should go in to Iraq
without friends either.  One of the rules of a gunfight:

Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

If nobody else had wanted to go through with this in Iraq, then
the US probably should've let it drop also.  If something happens and people die (probably the only way you can get people to be
proactive these days), well I guess the same folks who were
originally so disagreeable would probably say "why didn't you do
anything to stop him?"  

As for Germany, I don't consider the actions of their government
absolutely representative of their people.  Maik has confirmed that
sentiment (thanks Maik).

mauser

[JBA]

What Kind of like US does ... or every country on the whole bloody planet .. what makes Iraq diffrant .. Oil .. Oil Oil Oil .. don't be stupid this is about Oil.

And can you think of a batter reason. Think of all the plastics you use. Computers. cell phones, pagers, TVs/ water bottles, hair driers, toothbrushes, etc etc. all made from petrolem by-products. Of course this is about OIL. The Stabalization of the Worlds fuel source is a very good reason to go to war.

We import 20m barrles a day into US. 13m for transportation, thats right: trucking to move our food, medicines etc., air travel agian for shiping and personal travel, trains shipping etc. and ships, both pleasure and cargo and of course cars. We also heat our homes and hospitals and factories with oil. The plastics used in hospitals in surgery are petrolem by-produts. The plastics in the equipment are by-products. I can go on. But I made my point.

So I ask again, is ther a better reason then OIL, I would like to know what it is.

[Hangtime]

Freedom from terror and those that support it, elimination of a mass-murdering dictator, stabilization of a region that threatens world peace.

Oil is why France, Germany and Russia DO NOT want us to go to war there. We might mess with their slice of the pie.

[GRUNHERZ]

I think the Oil argument is idiotic. If we just wanted access to their Oil nobody would be happier than Saddam Hussein to sell it to us provided that we drop the sanctions and allow him to sell the stuff. I think everyone knows what he would with the money... And which two countries have been  the most agressive in keeping up the sanctions? France and Germany? Nah. Russia and China? Nope! America and England????  Yep I think those two...

[lord dolf vader]

please add one more american veteran who has the balls to question the little sociopath.


I prefer cokehead deserter. but sociopath is more correct I suppose. he got away with the desertion without being charged.

[Saurdaukar]

Originally posted by Dowding
Apart from bombing Kurdish villages, like they have been doing for the last couple of years?

But not what they drop on it before?

Let me get this straight.

Keeping Saddam's record for the past 20 years in mind, we want to give him chance after chance to "do the right thing" because he is as trustworthy as a Boy Scout, but you dont think Turkey should be given the same benifit of the doubt?

I have a solution to all of this:

We go and fence off the whole of the Middle East and tell them to have at it.  In 9 months it will all be Jewish.

[Udie]

2 Words for the stupid oil argument.   Texas and Alaska......  That doesn't even count the gulf of Mexico.


it ain't about oil.....