What's in it for France and Germany?

[ra]

France and Germany are forcing us a long a road to war with their childish attitudes.

Regardless of their attitude, if there is a war there was nothing France or Germany could have done to prevent it.

[Hangtime]

Regardless of their attitude, if there is a war there was nothing France or Germany could have done to prevent it.

Sorry Ra, that ain't the case. Material and political support for Saddam from the Franco-Prussians is REAL.

The noises the French and Germans are making will result in MORE lives lost.. Iraqi and Allied.

But not French or German lives.. oh, no. Instead, they stand to make even MORE money, comming outta this as the military technology and political 'attaboy' folks for every rouge state in the world.

Sometimes, a Spade is a SPADE.

[Duedel]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Sorry Ra, that ain't the case. Material and political support for Saddam from the Franco-Prussians is REAL.

The noises the French and Germans are making will result in MORE lives lost.. Iraqi and Allied.

But not French or German lives.. oh, no. Instead, they stand to make even MORE money, comming outta this as the military technology and political 'attaboy' folks for every rouge state in the world.

Sometimes, a Spade is a SPADE.

Hangtime whats ur problem (u must be Habu)?

U think the french and the germans are the only ones interested in MONEY? U think the intetions of the US of A are to democratize the Iraq, to liberate it, to prevent further terrorism??? SILLY!!!

U live in the most plutocracic country of the world. One regime with a psychotic idiot as ur leader and u really think we should follow u blind? SILLY!!!

U really think ur propaganda press provides u with independent objective informations? SILLY!!!

I'm not against war if the UN says go. I'm not with the german and french government if they blockade all or forsake our friends (and yes i count the USA as our friends) but at the moment these countries are doing right cause we have the nuts to do what we think is right (unlike the cheerleaders in Spain for example).

[Hangtime]

No Dudel.. I'm not Habu.

I'm worse.

U think the french and the germans are the only ones interested in MONEY? U think the intetions of the US of A are to democratize the Iraq, to liberate it, to prevent further terrorism??? SILLY!!!

Demonstrate that this premise is incorrect? What nations have we conqered, and remained in as dictators? How many times have we got off our tulips and done precisely the opposite of what you infer? Clue.. start with yours.

U live in the most plutocracic country of the world. One regime with a psychotic idiot as ur leader and u really think we should follow u blind? SILLY!!!

frankly.. you may be right about the psychotic idiot part.. I hate the lil monkey. But then again, the last american president I liked got shot. I do support the war on Iraq not because Bush supports it.. but because it's the right thing to do. Looking beyond personalitys and instead focusing on the ISSUE is key.

U really think ur propaganda press provides u with independent objective informations? SILLY!!!

The press did not brief me.. the Secratary Of State did. If you don't believe what Powell laid out at the UN and look objectively at what Saddam represents and come to the same conclusion he did then you are in fact supporting saddam's plan. Who's side are you on?? You want that guy to remain in power, weilding nukes?

I'm not against war if the UN says go. I'm not with the german and french government if they blockade all or forsake our friends (and yes i count the USA as our friends) but at the moment these countries are doing right cause we have the nuts to do what we think is right (unlike the cheerleaders in Spain for example).

Ah. Then you did NOT see Powells presentation at the UN. You read excerpts in YOUR press. And you are parroting YOUR press.

If YOU cannot make a PERSONAL decision on what is RIGHT, and instead HAND OFF YOUR DECISION TO THE UN, then it is YOU that is the media puppet.

[slimm50]

Originally posted by Duedel
... are doing right cause we have the nuts to do what we think is right (unlike the cheerleaders in Spain for example).

I hate to disagree with you Duedel, but I firmly believe the German and French and Russian gov'ts are merely covering their tulips in this thing. They're trying to come out smellin like a rose no matter what happens, but their indecision is gonna come back to haunt them when th smoke clears. I think the USA will plow ahead no matter what the UN and NATO says, and then Germany, France and Russia will "reluctantly" support us, all the while proclaiming how "We" were for peace all along but had no choice because the US couldn't be stopped.

Whew...did any of that make sense? Oh well, I'm postin it anyway:(

[bounder]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Draw a dateline across the WMD deployment/sale to Iraq.

Make that date 1991.

Now, WHO has been supplying Iraq with the materials for WAR since 1991 in defiance of embargo?

France, Germany, Russia, China.

UK too.

[Hangtime]

UK too.

Really??

What war materials have been suppled to iraq by UK since 1991?

I'm curious... what UK company would sell them arms?

[lord dolf vader]

" slowly he turned "


step by step ...

[Sandman]

Let's see... of all the arab states there is but one that has a democratically elected leader, and we don't like him either.

IIRC, democracy is not something that's generally compatible with Islamic fundamentals.

Maybe we can send Anne over to make 'em all Christians.

[Duedel]

Mr. Powell didnt show nothing new and even if he would have he didnt need to. Why? Cause I think theres enough evidence that Mr. Hussein had and still has chemical weapons and therefore I think he has to cooperate. But I think also there is still a huge possibility to solve this problem without the use of the most disgusting thing human beings can do - war.
BTW IMO I have deap respect for Mr. Powell but overall he is only a puppet for Mr. Bushs interests nothing more.

Furtheron I really dislike how undiplomatic and childish the US government (at first) and the German government (in reaction) are acting. This behavior is disgusting and what really pisses me of is that this behavoir is mirrored on this board.

There once was a really big friendship between ou countries that now takes huge damage. This even leads to threads where u call to boycott german and french products!!! This is distressing.

[MANDOBLE]

Originally posted by Hangtime
I'm curious... what UK company would sell them arms?

Cmon Hangtime, that kind of "transactions" doesnt work that way, there are always "legal" intermediator countries with a chain of intermediator companies.

[Habu]

Originally posted by Hangtime
No Dudel.. I'm not Habu.

I'm worse.

 

Actually I am just laying low as I seem to attract little padlocks to the side of threads now.

As far the French and German positons go.

I had lots more great information to post on France, examples of how they like to screw their allies by doing things that have no other purpose than to show everyone that they do what they want (regardless or more probably inspite of what others may ask of them).

Inviteing Mugabe to Paris for the sole reason of spiteing Tony Blair who was behind the EU travel ban is but one recent example.

The French President only ran for another term to extend his immunity from prosecution. He will face a criminal investigation when he is steps down from office. He has no ethics.

[Udie]

wtfg Hangtime  don't let the french/german/russian hypocrites get away with it.  Congress is already starting to think about getting in agains france germany, belgium and france (are they a member?) should be kicked squarly out of nato tomorrow.  We find out any of their weapons kill americans in this war I wouldn't be apposed to making germany and france what they were just before the Marshal plan.

[Hangtime]

This behavior is disgusting and what really pisses me of is that this behavoir is mirrored on this board.

Then debate FACTS duedel..

FACT.. Your Government, In concert with France is disputing exactly that.. THE FACTS. Show us contradictory EVIDENCE.

ITEM: We have shown FACTS that Saddam is a Terror Sponsor.

ITEM: We have show FACTS that Saddam is developing and is currently DEPLOYING WMD.

How are you going to stop him duedel?

Send him more arms for oil?

Nope.. we'd sure as hell rather not invade Iraq and get more innocent iraqi's and and allied personnel killed. There was a very gawdamned good chance he'd have been overthrown or forced into exile if a UNITED Europe and American force ringed him and said, "Jigs up.. come out with yer hands held high!" .

But, no... your governments decide that Hussein is more credible than Powell and dispute the facts laid out at the UN.. then you toss a wrench into the NATO planning sessions on fortifying the Turkish border. That's freakin stupid. Or your governemnts are hiding something evil there. Like post 1991 evidence of material support in the development of WMD.

Obstructionst Apologists. Not much better than wild pig toejam in my estimation.

[Udie]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Then debate FACTS duedel..
Obstructionst Apologists. Not much better than wild pig toejam in my estimation.

 Now you've gone too far Hangtime.  There is no need to insult wild pigshit by compairing it to French or German Obstructionists and Apologists....