Author Topic: What's in it for France and Germany?  (Read 1141 times)

Offline Mathman

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2003, 06:39:32 PM »
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What's in it for France and Germany?

Offline Hangtime

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2003, 06:42:22 PM »
Yeah.. yer right. I just reacted poorly to the insult to the squad.

I mean, fer crissakes, i couldn't let him crawl back under his rock unscathed after implying the FDB's are all screwed up just because i am. (i got in by subterfuge)
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline Puke

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2003, 09:07:59 PM »
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But I think also there is still a huge possibility to solve this problem without the use of the most disgusting thing human beings can do - war.


War has been declared on the USA and the West.  You cannot dispute this.  The interesting part is that the enemy is no longer confined within borders but can move between them.  But any leader that supports the enemy (even trains and provides weapons to them) is the enemy as well.  Saddam falls into the category.  And for the longest time he has been in violation of his contract of surrender and breaks the agreement of peace.  

I think the Germans and French are afraid that when we do succeed and remove Iraq's current governement that we'll learn the true extent of Germany's and France's dealings with Iraq.  

And it's not about oil for the USA.  We don't currently have an oil shortage that I'm hearing about and in fact a gallon of gasoline does not cost much more than one of those fancy 12 oz bottles of water.

Offline Gh0stFT

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2003, 05:16:14 AM »
folks you joking?

the USA helped the Talibans to gain control of Afghanistan against the russkies,
the USA build Osama bin laden, organized him with tactics and weapons,
the USA established even Saddam Hussein ! in Iraq...

...and now blame the germans and french?
sorry, the US is on the right way to make more friends, LOL
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Offline Habu

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2003, 08:15:00 AM »
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
folks you joking?

the USA helped the Talibans to gain control of Afghanistan against the russkies,
the USA build Osama bin laden, organized him with tactics and weapons,
the USA established even Saddam Hussein ! in Iraq...

...and now blame the germans and french?
sorry, the US is on the right way to make more friends, LOL


Good so step back and let the US go in and clean up the mess ok? Why are you germans trying to block that? You want to blame the US for the mess on one hand and you want to block them from dealing with it on the other.

Listening to that argument gives a whole new meaning to the word Euro-Weenie.

Offline Monk

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2003, 08:17:48 AM »
Same argument that you heard 10 yrs ago.
(In a whiney voice).......Why didn't you guys go all the way to Baghdad?
And now.

Offline Puke

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2003, 11:42:20 AM »
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the USA helped the Talibans to gain control of Afghanistan against the russkies,
the USA build Osama bin laden, organized him with tactics and weapons,
the USA established even Saddam Hussein ! in Iraq...


Funny, the USA never recognized the government of the Taliban.  Did Germany?

USA did no such thing as establishing Saddam in Iraq.  He rose up and finally entrenched his power through murder.  As the head of the Secret Police, he finally held a large meeting of all the political officials and started accusing his opponents one by one of treason or another whereupon they were escorted outside of the auditorium and shot.  

I'll let someone else get into the Osama thing.

Offline devious

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2003, 02:08:50 PM »
Mr. Powell didn`t impress the UN all that much with his supposed-to-be proofs for Iraqi "weapons of mass destruction"...

I`m all for taking Saddam out b/c he`s a despot and a murderer. Why not make that the reason. If it`s got to be "weapons of mass destruction" bring me proof from the inspectors, the UN. If it`s US evidence not gathered under UN control, you might just imprison someone b/c his neighbour said he`s a thief - "Aussage gegen Aussage". Again, I`m all for taking Saddam out.

It`s clear Al Kaeda supports Iraq - or anyone opposed to the US. I highly doubt Iraq supports Al Kaeda, it`s a secular state.

Offline devious

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2003, 02:10:52 PM »
The image below sums up the US argumentation pretty good ;)

Offline Puke

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2003, 09:20:50 PM »
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I`m all for taking Saddam out b/c he`s a despot and a murderer. Why not make that the reason. If it`s got to be "weapons of mass destruction" bring me proof from the inspectors, the UN. If it`s US evidence not gathered under UN control, you might just imprison someone b/c his neighbour said he`s a thief - "Aussage gegen Aussage". Again, I`m all for taking Saddam out.


Dang.  Once again, it is NOT the USA's responsibility to prove he has weapons of mass destruction.  The terms of cease-fire stipulated Saddam list all his weapons and then show the proof they have been destroyed.  There are many weapons that were accounted for that he's never shown proof of having destroyed.  By virtue of there being no proof they are destroyed, it must be they are still somewhere serviceable.  Which part of this do you not comprehend?

Offline milnko

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2003, 10:07:50 PM »
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Originally posted by Duedel
One regime with a psychotic idiot as ur leader and u really think we should follow u blind?
Germany thought so in 1934.

Offline Hangtime

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2003, 10:11:09 PM »
From Secratary of State Colin Powells address to the UN Feb 5:

How do I know that? How can I say that? Let me give you a closer look. Look at the image on the left. On the left is a close- up of one of the four chemical bunkers. The two arrows indicate the presence of sure signs that the bunkers are storing chemical munitions. The arrow at the top that says security points to a facility that is the signature item for this kind of bunker. Inside that facility are special guards and special equipment to monitor any leakage that might come out of the bunker.

(shows sattelite imagry to UN Council)

The truck you also see is a signature item. It's a decontamination vehicle in case something goes wrong.

This is characteristic of those four bunkers. The special security facility and the decontamination vehicle will be in the area, if not at any one of them or one of the other, it is moving around those four, and it moves as it needed to move, as people are working in the different bunkers.

Now look at the picture on the right. You are now looking at two of those sanitized bunkers. The signature vehicles are gone, the tents are gone, it's been cleaned up, and it was done on the 22nd of December, as the U.N. inspection team is arriving, and you can see the inspection vehicles arriving in the lower portion of the picture on the right.

The bunkers are clean when the inspectors get there. They found nothing.


-- obviously, you did not see the address, He showed proof the Iraqi's have the stuff, and move the stuff immedately prior to the arrival of the Inspectors.

He showed proofs that the Iraqi's are engaged in subterfuge and is not complying with the mandate to SUBMIT TO INSPECTIONS.

The UN did NOT mandate "play cat and mouse with your materials".

More:

At this ballistic missile site, on Nov. 10, we saw a cargo truck preparing to move ballistic missile components. At this biological weapons related facility, on Nov. 25, just two days before inspections resumed, this truck caravan appeared, something we almost never see at this facility, and we monitor it carefully and regularly.

At this ballistic missile facility, again, two days before inspections began, five large cargo trucks appeared along with the truck-mounted crane to move missiles. We saw this kind of house cleaning at close to 30 sites.

Days after this activity, the vehicles and the equipment that I've just highlighted disappear and the site returns to patterns of normalcy. We don't know precisely what Iraq was moving, but the inspectors already knew about these sites, so Iraq knew that they would be coming.

We must ask ourselves: Why would Iraq suddenly move equipment of this nature before inspections if they were anxious to demonstrate what they had or did not have.


Ok devious.. explain this action by the Iraqi's. WTF does it take to convince you? Shall we jump these convoy moves with rangers for you, hold the convoy at gun-point till the freakin UN inspectors get there?

Because, Devious, unless we blow this toejam in place in Iraq and hog-tie the Iraqi chaparones that ride with the UN teams speaking into radios every second, no UN team will be allowed near it.

Here's the deal, folks. If he has no WMD, we go in, it's over fast, saddams out, and the world has one less mass-murdering dictator. If he does have WMD, a lot of folks on both sides in Iraq get creamed, then it's over REAL fast and the world has one less mass-murdering dictator.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2003, 10:16:32 PM by Hangtime »
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline devious

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2003, 05:19:53 AM »
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Ok devious.. explain this action by the Iraqi's. WTF does it take to convince you? Shall we jump these convoy moves with rangers for you, hold the convoy at gun-point till the freakin UN inspectors get there?


Basically, yes. Either the UN testifies he`s got WMD, or the UN passes a resolution that the time for Saddam to proove he`s got none is over.

Given either, it`s time for UN-sanctironed "serious consequences" a.k.a. war.

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Because, Devious, unless we blow this toejam in place in Iraq and hog-tie the Iraqi chaparones that ride with the UN teams speaking into radios every second, no UN team will be allowed near it.


That`s the problem with the IMHO half-assed measures the UN put in place. Like you said, those inspectors should be accompanied by armed forces, reconnaisance aircraft, the works.

The other possibility: US / Great Britain / other supporters of immediate action declare old-fashioned war and just move in. Problem: Russia / China / N Korea will go on squeaking forever, or use that action as an excuse for their own wars.

My favourite outcome would be Saddam winding up with a few extra orifices, courtesy of "noone" a.k.a. the SEALS :mad:  No civilian casualities, Problem solved.

Offline Eagler

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2003, 07:10:15 AM »
guess they don't understand English:

"You are with us or you are against us"

pretty clear to me - just hope we follow through with the above statement whenever and where ever the sides are drawn..
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Offline babek-

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What's in it for France and Germany?
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2003, 12:00:54 PM »
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Originally posted by milnko
Germany thought so in 1934.


So thats a great compliment.

Decades ago germans followed stupid idiots who just want to make senseless wars.

Today the germans refuse to do so.

I think that this is a really good development of the german people.