1.08 is an interesting concept, but not for me

[Tac]

You want to keep the AI killing you with 1 ping?

Wouldnt it be better to have 3 times the amount of ack guns in a field, but have them fire a single .50 MG? Anyone getting near such a concentration of lead will be in serious trouble, not guaranteed death. Have a field be defended with 12 osties and 10 m16's , see how your chances are astronomically increased at NOT getting killed 95% of times you make a pass. Why? Its NOT AI.

[whirl]

its just too accurate.  i can't do attack runs in a 38.  one of the best attack plane is useless because of deadly accurate ack and totally friggin porked dmg model.    i weave and single pings get a wing or engine, i dive at 450knots and bam, single ping does my wing/engine, i stay up and pass over and bam, single ping dos my wing/engine..  it's totally ridiculous.  i lost a wing in a mossie(another 1 pinger) in a steep curved dive.  wtf??  

you guys ever tried to swing a  mounted hvy machine gun at a moving target??  there are several factors in this action.  tracking a moving target(a hummvee with a sled, for instance) alone takes 1000's upon 1000's of round to get right.  and thats at 25 mph..  this doesn't even take into consideration your lead trajectory.  a mounted 50 cal on a fast action support frigate, deadstop, will not be able to track an enemy fighter doing 300 mph on the deck.  its not possible.  at 1000 yards up, yeah..  but not low and weaving.  the fact is, a person would spend more time fighting the weapon, just to try to get a trajectory at all, than he would focusing on a good lead for a shot.  

 you got ack that hits with deadly accuracy, targets moving hundreds of miles an hour!!!  cmon--this is so unrealistic its pathetic.

i've been there and done it.  BM knittle, fast action group, support--LST 1193, small boat squadron, little creek, virginia.

[ET]

I think 1.08 is a pretty good version.the new planes are great.The idea of the maproom in the city with 3 extra acks is a good idea and should have made the field harder to take but for some reason doesn't.

Bombing the nme ordinance at fields are a problem.If you take ammo barracks fuel down,they come back up in a couple of minutes with resupply which makes strat bombing useless.

I looked for specific targets at the depot and could not find any so I guess you have to flatten the depot to put it out of business.

So it seems like the role of strat bombing has been diminished to a point of why bother except for hangers and such.Unless I am missing something and if I am, feel free to give me a clue.

ET

[Voss]

Whirl, From an eight-thousand foot start I can nail the ack three out-of-four times with rockets. From a fourteen-thousand foot start above the target I can egg acks with a level bomber, or dive bomb them without taking a hit. Any one of the American fighters is capable of this.

Your concept of diving into the acks is brave, but stupid. I liken it to the concept of suicidal CV killers. Quit doing it or get used to dying. Weakening the acks to a point where a fighter can wade in and gun the acks, vultch, and kill assets (all in one pass) would make the ack useless to the point of the ridiculous. Set up your attack wisely and you will survive.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Voss:
Then, tonight, whilst attempting to defend one fleet, I find the rear gunner position occupied when I need it the most. It's not firing. I turn the fleet, so as to make use of the front AAA. The attacker not only does not release his eggs (sees me turning I suppose), but leaves the sector entirely. I leave too. When I see he returns, I go back to the fleet. All AAA positions are occupied. No one is firing. I turn the ship. The attacker leaves the sector. This time I stay. The attacker returns, guns never fire, I turn the ship, and it sinks anyway. New tactic? I don't know...

I don't think I understand you Voss. On one hand, you are saying that this new version requires a lot of teamwork, but then you say finding it is near impossible.

Now you are suggesting that enough of the enemy are giving up 12 hours of time just to sit in CV guns to prevent you from defending it while yet another takes the time to fly a bomber to it and sink it?

It sounds ridiculous to me. But if there is that kind of teamwork, maybe you should find out who those guys are and join up.

Midnight - CO
http://webpages.charter.net/davidlj/" TARGET=_blank>
412th FS Home Page
         

[Vulcan]

Whirl check out this page: http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/stories.htm

2/10 Tempests survive one pass on an airfield at 450kias. Now do you really think your lone 38 is gonna do better?

[DanielMcIntyre]

I agree with you Voss on the feel of the game at the moment, seems kinda uncoordinated and less compact if you know what I mean.  IMO it was more fun when the focus of the capture was field oriented, at the moment field defense and attack are secondary to the capture and in many cases can be bypassed entirely.  Another thing which I find strange and may possibly be a bug is the ability to spawn an m3 30 seconds from a city with all ack up and still make the capture.  The city ack does not fire at gv's, at least they didn't today when I made the capture.

I love the tree, new planes, railways n convoys, but I don't like the new capture system.  The old one was great and i hope HTC decide to reimplement it with citys providing a secondery objective only.

Another thing which I think definitly needs to change is the perk points for rail and convoy.  I killed 2 mossies and an ME262 in a hurricane the other day, died and got 2.0 perk points.  While others take a mossie to an undefended sector and strafe trains and get 40-60 perks per sortie on totally vulnerable targets with no risk to themselves.  I won't do this because I feel it reduces the effectiveness of the perk system, but I know a lot of others are doing it and might explain the large numbers of perk planes flying around these days.

Regards to super uber star wars ack, it sucks

chow  

[whirl]

Voss, Vulcan, your both right...  and i'm not wrong.  i understand your concepts.

understand mine-- target solution from a mounted hvy machine gun on a pivot, in the "fog of war," is damn near impossible.  i could understand if their we're 50 HMG's all firing into the sky, but 4 or 5 always landing a critical hit??

i'm talking development, your talking gameplay tact.  yes Voss, but it is quite fun to swoop from 10k and roll into a base;^/

Vulcan, 6 aaab's vs 40(the only real number listed i could find in article) is a major friggin difference.  6 could barely fill the sky with the lead to stop dive bombers.  40 on the other hand..  all 20's and 37's too..  that didn't even include the 88's or the .50's being fired--heh.  you need to get a better article for argument then this.

oh btw--i don't vulch--i at least letem get airborne and get a little bit o' E;^/

[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: whirl ]

[whirl]

just to balance my whine about 38 fm and ack accuracy:  i've been flyin online for 7 years and offline longer.  this is the best game, ever, for combat simulation vs. real opponents.

i'm continually astounded by the detailed environment and will base my computer upgrades on this environment.  the flight models by far are better than 95% of the existing games around-there is much care in their research and development.  

the variety of craft surpases any game playable to date.  ground vehicles, air vehicles and water surface vehicles included.  

the price, well after a month, i can say i'd pay more to enjoy it.  

the community has developed well. i'm not sure if this is from the influx of airwarriors, but never-the-less, it's a good place to call "home."

i'm not a technician(as in, naming every plane from every production year since flights inception.)  nor can i tell you every acm or advanced acm listed.  i've probably used 'em though.

i may even be an bellybutton alot..  it's really just the "ace" mentality-- my 38 will beat any other plane in flight, H2H.  period.  that doesn't mean i don't like the people.  i just like to win.  if i'm wrong, i'll admit it.  i'll tell a person good fight; if they beat me H2H.  

i enjoy the pilot banter and consider "squelching" a cowardly act(especially if ya announce it on the open channel i.e. squelching "so and so".)  

i try not to whine much on the country or open channel--  sometimes it just comes out before i can check myself.  for every whine i've ever let pass my lips, there's been 10 i haven't.  so you guys and gals, well, you can accept my apology in advance or not.  

i will gladly invest in higher grade computer components when i can no longer fly and enjoy the "environment" with my present equipment.

i see the direction HT's heading here and applaud him for it.  

<S> all, Cmdr.Nomad(3rd-ew)

[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: whirl ]

[Booky]

I agree with Tac on the idea of makeing the town and base separate. After all thats what I thought they were doing in first place. This is way too easy to capture fields, but I think it should be easy to capture the town. Just make them sepatarate, and use the town to supply the base, and city/depot to supply towns.

[Vulcan]

Whirl whats 40/10? IE the number of flaks/attackers. Thats 4:1. Less than the AH 6:1. Read it weep sonny... find some better maths for your argument  

Plus those were Tempests doing 470kias!!!

Second, what was that dude that manned the guns in Pearl Harbour (real and movie). How many a/c did he shoot down? Wasn't he a cook untrained on Mg's let alone Mg's into a/c?

I actually find most 37mm human gunners more lethal in AH than the AI guys. I've also completely de-acked a field in a tiffie, 3 passes, 1 up, 1 back, 1 for VH ack.

So, for my argument I have historical evidence supporting flak accuracy, I also have evidence that the ack in AH can be evaded.

Pay up!


 

Originally posted by whirl:

Vulcan, 6 aaab's vs 40(the only real number listed i could find in article) is a major friggin difference.  6 could barely fill the sky with the lead to stop dive bombers.  40 on the other hand..  all 20's and 37's too..  that didn't even include the 88's or the .50's being fired--heh.  you need to get a better article for argument then this.
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: whirl ]

[Tilt]

IMHO this new strat model is  a considerable improvement in terms of game philosophy.

Placing more emphasis on logistics and their delivery to towns which support fields  provides a far more varied yet IMHO realistic approach to the role of aircraft in a war environment.

I am sure there are yet more changes required to bring the MA into better balance.

I am also sure that HTC have many "in hand"

Some suggestions I might wish for......

1)Towns are too easy to destroy (heavier duty buildings please to make it harder to straffe the ack)
2)Towns should have local vehicle spawn points accessed from the field VH.
3)2 goons (20 troops) required to capture a town (force some team work)and its field.

4)Regen (town and field)is entirely subject to resupply by convoy or player supply drops. (No auto regen) (meaning if you take a field with out a secure supply route it does not regen at all unless you supply it your self)

5)Once we have launchable heavy buffs please fix the bombing model (via serious bomb drift and sighting inaccuracies) so they have to carpet bomb (at medium to higher alts)instead of picking off individual targets with pin point accuracy.

6)add more strat stuff (bridges, marine convoys etc)

Tilt

[MadBirdCZ]

Originally posted by ET:
I think 1.08 is a pretty good version.the new planes are great.The idea of the maproom in the city with 3 extra acks is a good idea and should have made the field harder to take but for some reason doesn't.

Bombing the nme ordinance at fields are a problem.If you take ammo barracks fuel down,they come back up in a couple of minutes with resupply which makes strat bombing useless.

I looked for specific targets at the depot and could not find any so I guess you have to flatten the depot to put it out of business.

So it seems like the role of strat bombing has been diminished to a point of why bother except for hangers and such.Unless I am missing something and if I am, feel free to give me a clue.

ET

Everything is in TEAMWORK. It was this way before 1.08 came and its even more important now. When you are taking fields then there are 2 ways.

1. Sneak and grab - this is fast and easy and with 1.08 its a child's play because you have only 3 acks to kill and you are GO for drop. But sneaks are only possible when the other side does not pay attention to what is going on. So if they do not care they should lose the field.

2. The hard and more complex way - you need a group of ORGANISED and COOPERATING people for it. Some of them take out VH and ack on the field. Others take care of town and another few planes go little away from the field patroling for any possible convoys ib for field resupply and looking for enemy C47s trying to sneak cargo to the damaged base. When the enemy is not stupid and manages to cooperate at least at some level then geting the field with the new strat system is more complex and more enjoyable than before (just my opinion)

I agree that since 1.08 is out the gameplay became more 'dynamic' since the fields are changing ownership really fast but I think that the new strat system is not yet finished so I would better wait with comments at least for one or two more patches...

 

[MadBirdCZ]

Originally posted by Voss:

HTC has never said a word about the easier then hell method of fleet elimination. Suicide dweebs have ruined the fleet.

One more thingy! Yes suicide attacks suck and I dont like them. When I go for fleet fishing Im doing it with the idea of coming back as much alive as possible (at least few cells) so I am not one of those who try to dive attack the CV with loaded fighterplanes hoping to be able to drop before that sucking unrealistic 1 ping high caliber AI ack kills them... I just take my B26 climb to 10k and drop on the CV from this relatively safe position... It woks for me almost everytime...

[LePaul]

Good comments, all.

Here's my gripes, go easy on me  

The ack seems to be incredibly accurate again, and I know my hrricaine got popped while evading through the hills.  I suspect it was THRU the hill but since I didnt see the shot coming, I can only suspect.  But from other attacks I've made on the cities, using our oragami IL-2, the ack is once again juiced.  I can't put my finger on what's wrong, is it too large a caliber, or just too accurate...but the 1 ping deaths are vastly more persitent than ever.

Add to this the ground vehicles are screwed up, the M8 bounces everywhere and if a GV comes near a tree or touches the city, you die.  So, the fun with GVs has pretty much ceased for me.

Plus these fluff'n trees.  Getting a loaded bomber out of any of these bases is amazingly risky.  I wouldn't mind the trees if they 1) Looked real, not like cartoonish 2-d paper cut outs (ala 'southpark' animation) or 2) if they were spaced apart.  I mean, check your local airport, if there are trees in the flight path, down they go.  I'm told the tree issue is going to be resolved but they still look awful.  The Mindaiano terrain is gorgeous, to ruin it with these ugly trees is a real disservice.  I'm no Picaso but can't we find something better than oragami~looking things?

Oh and the Pork Points.

Buffs bomb hangars, fields and such and get 1 perk point or so.  Some fella in a fighter flies out and about, hammers a train (that doesnt shoot back) and gets gazillions of perks.  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And one further, I don't understand why all of these bugs slipped through.  With all of us drooling for 1.08, I'm sure HTC had all kinds of beta testers to draw on.  I'm just in awe (head banging on desk) with some of these bugs.  No one noticed trees at the end of every runway?  No one drove the M8 around and noticed it bounced all over the place?  Maybe I'm being fussy since I work for a software firm and know what we go through to develop our product.  I'm not going to be rude and suggest how HTC should develop their software, but from a customer stand point, my satisfaction has been effected.  While I love the game overall, I really think a lot of these bugs could have been prevented.  Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, but I feel better having aired that.

Hopefully Patch 2 resolves a lot of the issues in this thread.