New Vehicle

[Jester]

Since the OSTWIND, WHIRBLEWIND & MOBELWAGEN where in reality all very "rare" on the battlefield a better replacement might be the SDKFZ. 7/2 FLAK TRACK with the 37mm Flak 36.
It has an armored drivers compartment to avoid strafers though the gun crew is a bit more exposed than on the M-16.

[Jester]

If you want to go with the open top and the 20mm gun set you could go with the  SDKFZ. 7/1 with the Quad 20mm Flakvierling 38. This same chasis also had a single 20mm gun mounted. This would bring it into the same catagory with the M-16.

[Jester]

Some Observations on AH Armor:

1. As each side has a dedicated Flak vehicle I don't see us getting another one of ANY type for some time to come.

2. As there are only German tanks - our first and primary need is either the T-34/85 (My Choice)(Stick a MG on it for AA defense, I can live with it) or some version of the Sherman. (Jumbo or Firefly).

3. A version of the German Sdkfz. 250 Half Track could give us an AA version like the M-16 and a troop carrier like the M-3.

WHAT ELSE WE NEED:
1. Damage models for GV's redone.
2. Spawn points to have random points of appearance in a area not just one specific point. No two the same.
3. A moving front line would be nice also.


Soapbox Time: I would really like to see the ground war develop more in AH or at least the Combat Arena in AH. All us "Treadheads" owe Kanttorri a LARGE for his work on the Fin/Rus map with all the tank points and his new tank villages.
Only way we are gonna get these things is to pull together and let HTC know what we want.

[MOIL]

First off, thanks for all your great input!  I'm glad to see others as interested as myself in the GV dept.
I do like the SDKFZ.7/1, it was actually my 2nd choice, I'm not sure we need another "tank" in the game we already have 4 {although the Sherman wouldn't be a bad idea}
There was something said about the vehicle {Whirblewind} being had to kill like an Osty, I dont think this would be an issue since the Osty & M16 are farely easy to disable, espeacially the M16.
Many, many times i have been taken out or had my main turret disabled in my Osty or M16 just from planes strafing me or the worst--> rockets & bombs. We'll see what happens.
Thanks again for your input and ideas,  MOIL ~LTAR~

[Frogm4n]

yea lets get the pershing, we need a vehicle that did little to no fighting in the real war. I cant wait to see them all over the place.
screw the sherman t34 and pantherD

[LLv34_Snefens]

I recently bought a nice book about German tanks. In the appendixes there is a list of numbers produced throughout the war:

[b]Self propelled anti-aircraft guns[/b]
2cm FlaK30 or 38 auf Zgkw 1t (Sd Kfz 10/4)         610
2cm Flak38 auf Pz Kpfw 38(t)                       141 (11)
2cm Flakvierling 38 auf Zgkw 8t (Sd Kfz 7/1)       319
2cm Flakvierling 38 auf Pz Kpfw IV, 'Wirbelwind'    87 (87)
3.7cm FlaK36 auf Sd Kfz 6/2                        339
3.7cm FlaK36 auf Sd Kfz 7/2                        123
3.7cm FlaK36* auf Pz Kpfw IV, 'Möbelwagen'         240
3.7cm FlaK43 auf Pz Kpfw IV, 'Ostwind'              44 (37)
8.8cm FlaK18 auf Sd Kfz 8 / Sd Kfz 9                25

Numbers in () are the number of the vehicles produced by conversion.
*) One place the Flak36 L/96 is mentioned for the Möbelwagen, the other it is FlaK43 L/60.
Not mentioned here are vehicle only produced as prototypes, like for instance the 'Kugelblitz' or the 3cm Flakvierling (Wirbelwind with MK103 instead)

__________________
Ylil. Snefens
Lentolaivue 34
My AH homepage

[Tilt]

Seems to me we have a std tank and a heavier tank..............

In the context of AH adding later Shermans and T34's would simply add a higher plain of fire power and armour.

The GV interface with buildings, structures and the like is not so refined as to make this a rewarding venture..........

I would suggest that any GV's should look to expansion in range of type rather than increase in calibre and armour.

To this end I would offer the Studebaker truck and trailer........

It would have several load out combinations

Trailer Loadouts

24 x 185mm Katyusha rockets

or

5" field artilery or AA artilery (with just a few shells)

or

field supplies

or

vehicle supplies(excluding 5" shells or katyusha rockets)

Truck loadouts

24 x 185mm Katyusha rockets

or

Shells for 5" field artilery or AA

or

field supplies(two lots)

or

general vehicle supplies (two lots)(excluding 5" shells or katyusha rockets)

or

troops


To deploy the trailer you would have to stop. Press the "open bomb bay door button" and wait for the trailer to prep (maybe 30 seconds)

You then access the trailer via the normal gunner view keys.

Closing bomb bay doors packs up the trailer so the truck and trailer can move to another position.

[Terror]

Originally posted by brady
I think their were only 7 in Europe, at the very end of the war, they saw some action, but it was quiet limited. A better choice imo would be a M4A3, it could be used a lot more(the Sherman) in events and the CT and would be non perked.

I don't think limited use during WWII has been a major factor in HTCs decision to model units in AH.  Look at the ME262, ME163, F4u-1C, TA152.  All very limited production/use during WWII.

The Sherman would just be fodder for the PNZR and TIGER.  Even if we get the 105mm version...

Terror

[Arlo]

Limited use may well be more of a factor, given the nature of TOD. I think priority will go to making sure historical matchups can be better accomplished (and rightly so). There's some uber-fluff already. There probably will be more as time goes by but I don't see it getting top billing anymore.

Thank cod.

[brady]

Terror, you are right that prduction numbers do not realy play a factor in determing what is built or not built, but as Arlo points out the Pershing would not fit in 95% of any event or CT set up not to mentoin the ToD, also presently we Have a Heavy tank, if another Heavy were added one as capable as the Pershing would be then a better tank that saw more service could easly be added in it's stead that saw much more service, a Panther, JS-II ect.

 Tilt, Pyro once mentioned the posabality of adding Artileary to AH, but this has yet to matearilise, other than ship born guns which are somewhat limited in their efectivness.
  Imo the idea of adding soft skined vehicals that would have virtualy no defense from the air, be extrodanarly easy to kill from even the weakest armed planes and provide thier users with no means of securing a safe landing in an offensive sortie would not be popular choices for use in the Hanger and would consume considerable resources in terms of construction time from AH. Like most things that are debated in AH for inclushion one has to ask thenselfs at what price are we ariving at this new toy, what are we giving up or putting off, to that end the adation of another GV shuld imo be one that can be redaly adatpted to a number of uses and at the same time be a popular choice, clearly the Sherman fits that bill.

 Moil and Andi, Moil is corect imo that the Osty is very easy to kill and or disable, howeaver I suspect a large part of the AH comunity would disagree with this statement.
  If we consider Mobil AA platforms in AH and ask ourselfs what their true function is we must concead first that in AH Airplanes interact with the GV's in a compleatly unrealisitc envoiurment and to a compleatly unrealistic effect in terms of their abaility to kill them. Having said that the function of mobill AA platforms in AH is to make the ground aspect of game play a viable one, one in which the player has a chance aganst such stacked odds. The AA platform nead to have some meashure of protection and hitting power, clearly the M16 is extreamly easy to kill, and the osty is imo only marginaly tougher, yet the osty is the best posable choice we could hope for and we have it, providing what amounts to field guns on trucks is not going to help anyone or help this cause and it will burn up AH construction time for platforms that bring nothing to new AH in terms of efectivenss or, surviabality over what we presently have. Even the vaunted Tiger can be killed with a siingle 500 pound bomb, the only saving gracce hear is that not all the AH players posses the skill/luck to deleaver a 500 bomb on target with the frequancy to make even the Tiger as easly killed as all the other GV's in the eventory.


   Somthing to bear in mind,We will imo be extreamly lucky to see a new GV in the next 6 months, so if you had to chuse and chuse only one......

  Man I nead a nap after all that:)

[Sakai]

Originally posted by brady
I think their were only 7 in Europe, at the very end of the war, they saw some action, but it was quiet limited. A better choice imo would be a M4A3, it could be used a lot more(the Sherman) in events and the CT and would be non perked.

Brady is good, Brady is wise:

The Sherman is best choice since you can do the ubiquitous M4A3, the "Easy 8", the English Firefly, and the 105 Howitzer version all on the same model.  Since variations are easier to model than originals, you could get a serious lot of armor out of the M4A3 modeling project!  Also, you'd have the D-Day amphib tank for ship to shore ops, and that would be cool.

After the Sherman, need the T-34/76.

After that, how about some early war tanks?  Japanese Chi-Ha?  You could model the Stuart and use it as a proxy for early war armor.

I also wouldn't cry in my wheaties if an M7 Priest, Wespe, or some towed artillery made it into the game.

Sakai

[HoHun]

Hi Brady,

>Their was no Twin 37mm mount produced on the Mobile wagon series

Oops! I should know better than to trust websites, but when it comes to tanks I have no other choice :-)

>the 37mm mount was a single gun, the same gun as used on the osty( I beleave),

The unreliable website I quoted said the early 37 mm was a L60 gun while the Ostwind's was a L70.

The only thing I can say for sure is that the correct spelling is "Wirbelwind" - other than that, I'm clueless :-)

Fascinating topic nevertheless, we should try and get Tony into this thread!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[brady]

I have been burned by websights before ae well:)

   The book: Encylopedia of German Tanks of World War Two, states that the Osty and the Mobilewagen Sd Kfz 161/3 both used the 3.7cm Flak 43/L60.

 Ya know I hadent thought of that saki, the M4105 would Rock!, and the Firefly would give the Tiger great pains.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by brady
Imo the idea of adding soft skined vehicals that would have virtualy no defense from the air, be extrodanarly easy to kill from even the weakest armed planes and provide thier users with no means of securing a safe landing in an offensive sortie

Except of course these things would be in artillery/katyusha  range range from the spawn point...............

[Sakai]

Originally posted by Terror
The Sherman would just be fodder for the PNZR and TIGER.  Even if we get the 105mm version...

Terror

The early war, like Desert, Shermans ruled.  Most of the tanks they encountered were likely Mk IIIs though (?).  They were also extremely reliable which would ne nice if they got some sort of deference for that quality.

The rap on them is the stubby, low velocity 75s on the M4A3.  The E8 and Firefly would be the match or superior of the Pzkfw Mk IV, IMO.  Both had long barrelled, high velocity guns that were deadly on armor.

Sakai