Author Topic: Random Euro thoughts on Iraq  (Read 2180 times)

Offline Suave

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2003, 10:20:12 AM »
We have many physical reminders here from america's worst war . The war isn't over, it never will be . There will allways be slavery and there will allways be a fight to liberate .

Offline StSanta

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2003, 10:30:08 AM »
Wabbit - my post is in support of YOUR cause.

Yet you spite me.

Now I begin to switch back to anti-war again.

Dowding, good points, all of which are worth considering. Done so myself.

The fact of the matter however is that if the US does not strike and pull back their forces, Iraq will go back to the same old routine as before - as soon as the yankee soldiers are gone.

It all depends on how the US does it. Bombing the toejame out without taking care of post war issues (like to some degree in Afghanistan) and we'll have big troubles.

Being too impatient, the same. Not listening to world community, also the same.

Still, that dude Saddam has no morals whatsoever. Him gone would be an improvement.

Offline Puke

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2003, 11:29:21 AM »
StSanta,  I didn't see his post as spiting you at all.  WW2 took a lot from Americans and we do have our reminders.  I grant you, the physical reminders may not be to the same extent as what you have but we have a few including Pearl Harbor to a few I know dotted around here in San Diego, California.  But I don't think those physical reminders are quite the same as knowing family history and knowing that some uncle, grandparent or brother fought and/or gave his life to that war.  My wife's grandfather, a veteran of WW2, passed away last year but his brother died during the war.  You dared not buy that man anything that was made in Japan, the feelings were so strong with him and it permeated into the family a little bit.  Even 60-years later, we Americans are impacted by that war.  

And you do know that the world community was for the apeasement of Hitler as well, right?  Anti-war protests were not invented during the 60's, but we had them before WW2.  Let's not wait until it is too late anymore, Hortlund's comic image is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Offline Naso

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2003, 12:10:36 PM »
Puke, I think to understand that Santa is not diminishing (correct spelling?) the USA contribute in lifes and whatever.

He is pointing at the fact that here in Europe you can still see macroscopic signs of the wars.

In the buildings, churchs, historical artifacts, trenchs, bunkers, wrecks and so on.

You can find signs everywhere here (and some still working US bomb too ;) ).

You for sure, like us, have memories about relatives dead serving your country, but (Pearl apart), you did'nt have memories of your father, as a child, in the arms of his mother, earing the whistle of the bombs falling each fu...ing day and night for 3-4-5 years of your life, the soldiers... ENEMY soldiers, entering in your house and shooting your brother, or stealing everything, or raping even your little sister, the experience to be starved near to death, and cook your own shoes to taste something in the dirty hot water spilled from the last rain.

This kind of memories are the main difference in the perception of the war between us.

As a people we where there, you where NOT.

To be clear, I am not blaming you for that (for God sake, I am happy for you), but this is a thing you need to consider when judging our positions about war and bombing cities (even with so-called smart bombs).

Notice i did'nt cited the nationality of the above soldiers, can surprise you, but a soldier, in combat zone, and our cities were combat zones, is a big amazinhunk, wichever country gived him birth.

Flame on, if you want, but...

later...

think a little about what i said.

Offline Saurdaukar

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2003, 12:22:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
We have many physical reminders here from america's worst war . The war isn't over, it never will be . There will allways be slavery and there will allways be a fight to liberate .


Just out of curiosity - what are you refering to here?

Offline CptTrips

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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2003, 12:39:40 PM »
Quote
Yet you spite me.


No one is spiting you. I see that you (sorta) get it.  Even though some of your statements are annoying.  The ones I spite and spit upon are the ungrateful pr!cks who don't get it.

Quote
ENEMY soldiers, entering in your house and shooting your brother, or stealing everything, or raping even your little sister,



Reality check Naso.  The reason you suffered that is because europe spent FAR to long on its hands and knees like a sweety, grovelling to appease hitler.  

Hitler would have been SOOOO much easier to stop in '37 than he was in '43.  Think of all that could have been avoided.

Seems europe is too stupid to learn from history.  

Or perhaps just too corrupt.



Wab
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Naso

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2003, 12:47:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit
Reality check Naso.  The reason you suffered that is because europe spent FAR to long on its hands and knees like a sweety, grovelling to appease hitler.  

Hitler would have been SOOOO much easier to stop in '37 than he was in '43.  Think of all that could have been avoided.

Seems europe is too stupid to learn from history.  

Or perhaps just too corrupt.



Wab


Reality check AKWabbit, you missed the point.

I hope you will understand.... later...

just reread.

Offline Hangtime

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2003, 01:14:11 PM »
Santa.. Naso..

Thank you.

I'm hoping we can all get thru this. The REAL fight is not in Europe, thank god. We just need your help so we can; as united citizens of this planet, speak to the defense of freedom. If you guys were the Leadership Council of Europe, all of us would be safer.

"Our cause is just. We will prevail."

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Montezuma

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2003, 01:34:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saurdaukar

The only real historical "war" sites are left over from the Revolution and the Civil War.  They lose some of there impact because they are "preserved."  


That is not true, in California I sometimes played at Ft. McArthur as a kid, there used to be giant anti-ship guns there, ready to defend LA Harbor from a Japanese attack.

More recently, we have had to contend with millions of square feet of obsolete aircraft factories, many of which were kept going from WW2 all the way to the end of the cold war.  There's a giant toxic plume under the San Diego convention center left over from General Dynamics.

America this last century was largely spared the devastation of war; but when it does happen (like in NYC), it just makes us more angry, not more peaceful.

Offline Naso

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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2003, 01:46:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Montezuma
but when it does happen (like in NYC)


Sorry, with all due respect for our (yes, OUR) deads in WTC, it has little to do with a real war.

For example, just imagine 1-2 even 3 WTC a day for a year, AND no food, no water, no electricity, no money....

Got the idea?

Offline Montezuma

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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2003, 02:21:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naso

For example, just imagine 1-2 even 3 WTC a day for a year, AND no food, no water, no electricity, no money....


Just imagine, a rain of trident missiles...

Offline Naso

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2003, 03:01:44 PM »
Ok, Montezuma, I understand now your signature.

Offline Hangtime

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2003, 04:22:22 PM »
"my emotional national psyche scars are more pronounced than yours.."

"are not!!"

"are too!!"

"not!"

"too!"



gentlemen.. we quibble details.

war sucks. we know it, they know it.

lets all hope the fellas playing with the pens and buttons know it.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Naso

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2003, 05:27:51 PM »
.....

- Look That little red button...

- It's nice....

- Wonder if....

- Naa, there's that sign "do not push"...

- Yeah, but it's so.. provoking....

- Anyway maybe the sign it's a lie...

- Yeah, maybe... what do you...

- Dunno... pass me the beer...

- grab it... come on, that button cannot be so terrible...

- well, after all what can it be... pass me the cigarettes...

- here... you know? I push it





- what was?

- maybe a truck up there on the highway

- turn on the TV

- ok, wow, there's that strange movie... what was its name?

- wait wait.... strangesomething.... strange lover..

- Doctor Strangelove!!!

- yeah... you know? I never understood the meaning...

- me neither...



:D

Offline Puke

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Random Euro thoughts on Iraq
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2003, 09:14:43 PM »
Naso, you may have misunderstood me.  I did agree that Europe has a lot more physical reminders of the war.  However, my point was that the deeper scars do not come from concrete buildings, but from loss of family to the war and how it affects that family.  My one example was that 50-years later you could not buy a great uncle of mine anything Japenese, his feelings from the war were that strong.  These things run deep.