buff guns need to be turned down at long range

[Zeiram]

I don't think so
I hope leave it as it is.
The most of case of long range shot from buff gunner is the reason that Fighter approach to buff too straight and low speed small AOA simple manuver.

also AH Gunner is human.
I believe there are still more tactics to kill buff
I prefer to brush me up than request of changing lethality and wearing armor body.

More difficult is more fun right?  

[This message has been edited by Zeiram (edited 07-27-2000).]

[funked]

My career k/d in B-26 and B-17 is 92:60.  I've only flown in formation about 5 times, I don't ackstar and I don't fly them often enough to be particularly good with aiming the turrets and switching around.


[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Lucchini]

Cit,
I also strongly belive the OTTO's are overmodelled (tonight I lose my wings while I was at 1,7K from a B17 and I was going away after the first attack). I do not agree with the reasons of this overmodelling: in this game fiters must be escorted from bombers, and not viceversa like in the reality. I think it'd be a big fun to attack formations of bombers escorted by fiters....but I've never seen (but in scenarios) bombers with escort in this game.
Their gunnery is so powerfull that they need not escort...bah!
Bye
Lucchini

IP: Logged

[bloom25]

I just killed two bombers tonight in the p51 without receiving a single ping.  (Trust me, he was shooting.   )  If you attack from above at 400+ mph and aim for the tail or wingtip you will have no problem killing a bomber.  I got one b17 in 1 pass using 400 rds of ammo (6x50 cal) and the other in 2 passes using around 500 rds.  It took about 50 flashes on the tail to take the whole tail off.

Bomber guns are fine IMO, but I wouldn't be opposed to increasing dispersion at long ranges.  The only differences I notice between p51/p47 50cal and b17 50 cal is that the b17 50 cal inflicts damage just like the fighter 50 cal would at a range some 500 yds closer or so.  (IE 1k in a bomber is like 500 yds in a p51.)  Due to netlag I feel this is a neccessary compromise for the top, ball, and tail turrets.  (Front turret should have no range boost though.)

Here's a few little (70 to 160k) films for your viewing pleasure.  Notice how poorly my aim is in a couple of them.  Even though 2 of the films have bombers flown by top 50 pilots, the worst damage I suffer is a blown radiator on a pass that was too shallow.  (I have at least 8 more films that are just like these, but the file size is >300k.)

p51vb17.ahf
p51vb172.ahf
poorpass.ahf
killb26.ahf
p47bomber.ahf

That's my $.02 on this topic anyway.  

 

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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Maxopti1]

Yeeeeessssssss !!!!

I agree with Citabria, instead, we do of good, you remove the machine guns from the B17.
Give me a Garand, with a loader from 8 hits.
As, when I am in flight and have 5 fighter that they try to shoot down me, I enjoy much more, and if I am capable, I go back home with the three shots that I remain.

Please ...please... please...

Guys, you want easy preys, because as you could go around for the arena to grow fat yours score.
You like to shoot to the fighter in take-off on the runway in the airports without defense.
You stay badly when you meet anybody that not disposed to become shoot from you without defend.
The airplanes without guns, in the game, there is already, they are the C47, the others, if you approach, they there shoot.
I frequently fly in the B17.
And he is not amusing when 3, 4, or 5 fighter (at 30K of altitude), they try all together of do you asunder.
The only possibility of survival is that of maintain them and/ or strike them to distance.
It is not possible fight contemporary with 3 Fighters at 1K.
I find beginners that put on in my tail often and they come leveled to constant speed and they start to shoot me from 2K.
What should I do? Make to shot down ?
There doesn't think not even.!
I don't fly on a fighter, where for arrive at 20K there they want 5 min., I flight on a big beast, that for reach that quota, he has employed 20 or 30 minutes of my time.
I could not allow me to waste them because you don't want to lose of your time for look for and carry an attack that is decent.
Do you be in a hurry?  You avoid the B17.
Want you to strike the B17?
You learn to be patient and you use the proper techniques.
Because if you are wrong, you hardly will retry.

bloom25, says well.

Is easy shoot down a B17 in an only crossing, if is known like carry the attack and if the correct time is spent for prepare him.

Please, fly for enjoy and not for make points.  

Cheers.

Max



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When you are flown, there is an only certainty:
In a way or in the other, to earth you will return.

[Vermillion]

Actually I agree with Citabria. Suprise Suprise. I understand the need for longer max range for netlag, but lets tune it a little.

Fishu, it doesn't take a laserrange finder. It takes luck   I was talking to a B17 Tail Gunner just a couple of weekends ago at the AW Convention. He spoke of how one day he fired at a Fw190 at 1,000 yards and got hits... On the P-51 that was chasing the Fw190.  



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Wanker]

Absolutely not. No tuning is neccesary until we get to the point of having many dedicated buffing squads, that use the natural defensive box formation of WW2.

All of you guys lobbying for de-tuning the buff guns should think about what that would do to the JU-88 and the Lancaster. They're gonna be meat on the table right out of the blocks as it is.

Right now, a fighter pilot has to carefully stalk his buff prey, and make carefully planned attacks. Just the way it should be.

[Cobra]

Cave has posted the effective range deal a few times and he is right.  The max effective range has been strengthed, not the max range.

I say leave the guns the way they are, except on Jihad's B-26!

Cobra

[CavemanJ]

I remember this argument from the other side, when I drove the buffs 90% of the time.
We [buff drivers] kept saying and saying there was something wrong with our .50s, and there really was.  This was before the gravity problem was fixed (took tank rounds falling short for that to be found).  The gravity was fixed and the .50s got some of thier bite back.
Now, a version later, the fighter jocks are crying because they buffs are too hard to kill.  It's not that the buff's guns are too strong, is the gunners are getting better at hitting what they aim at.

If the buff drivers feel relatively safe behind thier guns the fighter pilots cry.
If the fighter pilots feel relatively safe attacking a buff (weaker guns) the buff driver's cry.

Fact of the matter is, the .50s on the buffs could have 10x the lethality they have now, but a properly executed attack won't let the gunner track you and kill you.

[Westy]

 I think the settings are just about where they should be. When there are as many posts about the difficulty in taking down a bomber, or about the lethality of it's guns,  as there are as how bad it is to fly a bomber then HTC has almost reached a perfect balance.
 
 -Westy

[Ripsnort]

I'll throw my 2 cents in the pot.  In 11 years of online gaming, I've never been in an arena where the Buffs guns are modeled to perfection.

If you attack a buff the wrong way, its gonna kill ya at D1.5, with a good gunner.  If you attack the buff with historical methods, then you're going to get an easy kill.

Buffs, in this boys opinion, are fine.  Lets not repeat the iEN fiasco where they change the lethality monthly, thats  a joke!

[Mox]

Leave the .50's the way they are now.  At least a bomber has a chance to make it to the target now.

Mox

[popeye]

I vote to leave the settings the way they are.  Buffs are gonna have more to worry about soon anyway.    

popeye

[Pavel]

Buffs are fine as is.  I can understand newcomers having a bit of trouble with them, but this incessant boohooing from bonafide fighter studs is simply pathetic.

[BigJoe]

Hardly ever use buffs I always seem to be attacking them, I say there's nothing wrong with buff guns try practicing a better approach to keep yourself out of their sights.  Many times I've had to make several passes on the bomber to get the kill but not one bullet hit me, sometimes all it takes is one good straff starting from its nose down it's entire side and KaBoom no more buff.  
Patience is the key, you wanna crawl up a buffs six for the easy kill it isn't going to work unless the gunner's not looking.  You have to plan your shot take the time to get into a good position and be prepared to do it all over again.  Now if I could only practice what I preach ALL the time they would never hit me.