buff guns need to be turned down at long range

[Citabria]

make them plenty leathal at more realistic ranges but this d1.5 deaths from buff pings is bs any way ya slice it.

[eskimo]

Oh shut-up Cit.  Not this again!

Tour 6:

"Citabria has 61 kills and has been killed 10 times against the B-17G."

"Citabria has 25 kills and has been killed 11 times against the B-26B."

eskimo

[This message has been edited by eskimo (edited 07-27-2000).]

[eskimo]

Cit., how did you feel about the Buffs defensive guns on your buff sorties?  I can attest that you are a great gunner and stand as good of a chance as anyone at defending yourself, and yet this is how you have done this tour:

"Citabria has 9 kills and has been killed 10 times in the B-17G."

(One of these kills you got ME with a dang bomb!)

And even worse!:

"Citabria has 4 kills and has been killed 19 times in the B-26B."


No one wants to fly long slow buff sorties just to be your cannon fodder!

eskimo

[This message has been edited by eskimo (edited 07-27-2000).]

[Swoop]

I agree with Cit.

make buffs much stronger but nerf the guns.  Make a fighter/buff battle much longer and much more fun than ping....wing gone.  Also, I notice when I do actually get a decent approach to a buff they go down with 1 burst from the guns (usually, depending on whatever I'm in) which is why I suggest buffs get made much stronger.

Swoop

[Citabria]

i said make the guns strong at close range not at d1.0 or greater

[easymo]

 The thing that people should think about, is that diveing on a buff is an HO. All the things that people claim to hate about HO,s apply. Who has the best connex ect. I have many times taken the wing off of a B17, But died first thanks to net lag. Imagine HO, ing a fighter with a rock solid gun platform, and a 1.8k range. Its the same thing.

[eskimo]

When I fly buffs, I choose to stay away from fighters.  I know they have the advantage.

When I get killed in a fighter by a buff, it's almost always because I made a poor approach, and I tell myself that I was killed because of a poor approach.  When I make a good appraoch, he is, almost always, dead. Just learn from your mistakes and don't give him a good solution.

When a buff and a fighter meet, it was the fighters decision where and how they met.

Most buff-gun critics do not spend a great deal of time in buffs, and veiw the situation from the fighters point of veiw.  Fly buffs alot, and you opinion may change.
This is a game, and buff drivers need a fair chance.  If an F4U-1C emptied his entire clip, dead 6:00, at D1.0, the b-17 would get hosed.  Net lag puts the buffs at a disadvantage on 6:00 attacks.  They need the gun range.  
Every B-17 that has gotten me this tour has hit me at D 0.8 or less.  I juke to protect myself and my spits radiator at long range, even out to 1.8.  

eskimo

[Exile]

I know this has probably been answered before, but .....

Why aren't 50cals in a buff the same as 50cals in a fighter? Is a game balance issue?

If so, then maybe it would be better to leave the guns the same across the board but increase the toughness of the buffs to help balance gameplay.

But this would no doubt lead to gripes about how hard it is to kill a buff.  

[Torque]

The main defense of a buff was either vast numbers or darkness. Since they can easily simulate one nighttime how do they make a daytime lone B17 playable? I agree totally with the guns being over modeled. That in turn forces you to have a huge adv when attacking to offset numbers issue. Buff pilots take twice as long to reach alt as a fighter, making guns stronger with the D1.0 range fighters can defend bases by attrition easily.

I never engage buff with full ammo or more than 3/4 tank, unless they're pork'n my base.

[BBGunn]

I am not sure history means much here but some B-17's withstood attacks by more than a dozen german fighters while some B-24's were knocked down by a single Oscar with its two machine guns.  I am currently reading the book "Aces Against Japan" by Eric Hammel and some American pilots indicated they were never hit by rear gunners unless they were really close like a 100feet away from the enemy ship. I have been pinged at 1.3K by the B17 which seems excessive to me.

[CavemanJ]

the only difference between the .50s on the bombers and the .50s on the fighters is max effective range.
Max range is the same, but the rounds from the .50s on the bombers holder thier hitting power an extra 300-400yds or so.  This is to counter netlag.  and I'm sure everyone has a story where they were shot down with the bandit showing 800-900yds behind them, but on the shooter's FE the range only showed 450-500yds.  This has happened to me plenty of times.
I hashed this out with Pyro along time ago when I spent 90% of my time in the buffs.

Historically the .50 has been lethal out to 1600yds, as there is a kill recorded at that range.

And Cit, with those numbers, you ain't got no business complaining about buff guns  
You obviously know how to hit a buff, so dinnae yell about the guns if ya mess up  

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by CavemanJ:

Historically the .50 has been lethal out to 1600yds, as there is a kill recorded at that range.

I'd like to know what sort of laser rangefinder that guy had in WW2...
Anyway, historically you get more long range kills in AH than enough.

[jihad]

 If you don`t want to see anymore bombers then keep squeaking until they`re *fixed* to your satisfaction.  

 If the guns on the bombers are reduced in lethality it stands to reason *ALL* .50 caliber armed planes are going to suffer.

 Leave the bombers alone-unless its to add additional hardness to them.

[-towd_]

noble silence (avoidin trimmin)

[Tac]

I agree with Citabria. (ooh big surprise there lol!   )

Make the buffs tougher, not more powerful!.

I BELIEVE that the problem is not the range nor damage, but the amazing accuracy and convergence the guns have.

If I attack a buff from high 1 cloc, I get 5 .50 cal guns shooting at the exact same spot where the human gunner is aiming to. Imho, its when those 8 guns hit you in the same spot at once that you get that amazing 1-ping-of-death I hate so much. On a HO, a P-38 can be said to have perfect convergence on the target with 4 .50's AND 1 20mm cannon.. but I sure as hell dont see one ping kills!.

Like I said in the other buff threads, make the buffs a bit tougher AND make the otto guns fire in a random direction to a 10 or 15 degree cone where the human gunner is aiming. It would simulate other human gunners (instead of a targeting computer as it is now).