Author Topic: Yanks, an apology  (Read 559 times)

Offline X2Lee

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2003, 01:18:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
By the same token, disagreeing with war does not mean thinking the US is evil.



I think some Yanks on this board should remember that. To them, France=Evil.


Ya know ? I dont think most of us think that at all.
Some of us think they are greedy yes, some think they are cowards and some think they are a big joke. I always liked the french, after all they gave us lady liberty and helped us out in the revolution.

I dont think Americans think they are evil.

I think we do feel betrayed by our allies that care more about money than doing the right thing tho.

And we love the euro polls that think we are warmongers and
are fighting for oil. How dare yall? We have fought for freedom
even before we were a country. We have fought for freedom
for other countries as much as we did for ourselfs. We have NEVER took others lands for conquest or to fatten American purses. We have helped many many nations achieve freedom and democracy at a large cost to american citizens. Every American could be very very wealthy if we didnt help millions
of peoples EVERY day will finacial aid and food.


it apalls me that you could think we have motives other than ridding the world of terror and atrocities.

And the guys who say why iraq instead of NK?
We can only do so much at a time.
We have declared war on terrorism and we will follow thro
bet yer bottom dollar.

Offline Toad

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2003, 01:23:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
But of course, that's just for fun.


You want to talk "childish"?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Dowding

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2003, 01:36:29 PM »
Quote
...it apalls me that you could think we have motives other than ridding the world of terror and atrocities.


The American administration will always have American interests at heart. That's its job. National security is one of those interests. Sometimes national security requires the use of political expediency. This can often result in the backing of regimes and leaders, such as Saddam Hussein, that use terror and commit atrocities.

At the moment, national security is paramount, and destroying Hussein is part of that. But times have changed and so have the circumstances. Now the US adminstration wants to use the concept of 'terror and atrocity' to justify its actions.

That's contradictory. That borders on hypocrisy, but in my opinion just falls short of it, because politcal expediency is perhaps the only thing that matters when it comes to foreign affairs.

I don't believe the US/UK is going after Iraq solely for oil - but I don't buy the idea that oil has nothing to do with it. Iraq as a Western friendly oil producer would be an insurance against unrest in Saudi or even an overthrow of that government. I believe that enters the equation somewhere.

I believe Saddam Hussein is a threat to the region, but unless the war is bloodless and has minimal civilian casualties, the war will become the biggest advertisement boon for Al Queda in the world today. Outside of...

...Palestine. More effort should be devoted to getting Israel and Palestine sorted. At the moment, the US is viewed as an evil regime mainly because of its ties with Israel. Unless something is done over there, there will always be plenty of willing recruits for Al Queda.

BTW, before I get the usual smart-arsed comments - I don't have a clue how to begin to sort it all out. I'm not sure anyone does.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2003, 01:44:25 PM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Dowding

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2003, 01:38:20 PM »
Quote
You want to talk "childish"?


It was sarcasm and wasn't aimed at you. Your description of my argument was aimed at no-one but me.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline X2Lee

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2003, 01:49:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding


Now the US adminstration wants to use the concept of 'terror and atrocity' to justify its actions.


I  disagree.
We have had 8 years of leadership with no backbone.
Now Bush is ready to step up to rid the world of the menace.
Its 10 years to late.

Terror and atrocities commited by saddam is not a "concept"
Its a fact.
Hes a war criminal. How can we conduct a war on terror and ignore this? This administration has the will to bring him to justice
and free the iraqi people.
Its a start.

Offline Toad

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2003, 02:03:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
It was sarcasm and wasn't aimed at you. Your description of my argument was aimed at no-one but me.


Nonetheless, it was quite childish, especially given the recent history here on this BBS and considering just who has been in the "can't we all just get along" contingent.

That's why it drew the response it did.

And would again.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Fridaddy

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2003, 04:17:30 PM »
StSanta, rest assured we in the USA know most of the world agrees with us, but they may not agree with the road we are taking.

As far as the word "Yank"

Its short for Yankee. The origin of the word "yankee"  is from mid-1700s refering to the English colonists, particularly New Englanders, who could "yank themselves up from anything" i.e. a compliment.

Its use as an offensive word was tried  by British soliders in 1775 when they marched on Concord bridge singing Yankee Doodle. Legend has it that militamen whould whistle Yankee Doodle right before they fired on the retreating troops.

Yankee Doodle was played as Lord Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington at the end of the war.  It was the first national song, people stood when it was sung.

Fell free to call me Yank, but capatalize it please!

Offline Nomde

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Yanks, an apology
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2003, 10:13:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Sometimes national security requires the use of political expediency. This can often result in the backing of regimes and leaders, such as Saddam Hussein, that use terror and commit atrocities.


IMHO,
It is due to this reasoning that the US is viewed negatively in the world. But I need to ask myself a few questions first:

1. What was the climate of the various allied nations at the time.
2. What was the climate in the US at the time.
3. The US consults with it's allies on a continual basis and implements these when concidering foriegn policies.

By commenting on the policies of the past, too often the overall picture is ignored. We cannot use the current environment to judge the past and too many fail to understand this.

The very act of us being able to place our thoughts on these BBS's is a testament to the many men and women, foriegn and domestic, which have laid down thier lives for us.

I remember the hatred of Iran inside the US when our citizens were held hostage. I personally didn't have any animosity over Iraq engaging in the border war with Iran because I believed the Islamic fundimentalist were a very real threat to the region. Anyone who had dealings with the region at that time remembers the concern. As time went on, Saddam started using the chemical weapons and more information came to light on how cruel this dictator was.

For us to sit here with the information we have now and debate about what we didn't know then is juvenile at best. I don't recall the outpouring of condemnation from the EU towards the US when we were dealing with Saddam then. If I recall correctly, it wasn't the US who was manufacturing/sending the equipment for "oil delivery" to Iraq in the late 80's which turned out to be materials for the super gun. This is only one instance, but it can be applied to many others which we debate now.

My point is this, no one's hands are clean in any of this and to throw stones at each other only strenghtens Saddam's defiance. It was due to the infighting of the United Nation's predecessor that Hitler ran across Europe. Debate is good, but debate to the point of inaction is irresponsible.

Saddam is not a physical threat to the US, but he is a direct threat to the interest of not only our nation, but to that of the EU, Russia, and China et al. If you want to call it "oil" so be it, but that is only a part of the "interest" at stake, only extremist will blind themselves of the global picture.

:D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2003, 10:17:38 AM by Nomde »

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