Author Topic: E U voted today  (Read 806 times)

Offline john9001

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E U voted today
« on: February 17, 2003, 05:32:53 PM »
in a suprise move today the EU voted to support the USA's position on iraq, they said saddam did not have unlimited time to comply, he must do it now or suffer the consequences.

recently NATO's defence committee ( which france does not belong) voted to defend Turkey.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2003, 03:05:14 AM »
They also said war should be a last resort.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline davidpt40

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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2003, 03:15:54 AM »
I support the war, but the unfortunate part is that thousands of Iraqi teenagers (soldiers) are going to die for Saddams insanity.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2003, 04:21:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
They also said war should be a last resort.

War always is. Bottom line is, the EU gave a green light for war.

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2003, 04:39:15 AM »
Not a green light for war, full stop. A green light for war if UN sanctioned.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline CyranoAH

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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2003, 04:42:00 AM »
They also left out a line that the UK and Spain wanted in: "Time is running out".

They tried to make an effort to stand united and each side gave something in.

Daniel

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2003, 05:08:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
I support the war, but the unfortunate part is that thousands of Iraqi teenagers (soldiers) are going to die for Saddams insanity.
David - I share your sympathy, and it's a damned shame. That's why war IS a last resort, and a tragedy. As our own Duke of Wellington once said when surveying the battlefield from which he emerged victorious: "The next saddest thing to losing a battle is winning one".

I don't think the Iraqi teenagers will put up much of a fight. Last time, I recall hundreds of thousands (well, 170,000) being taken POW. (BTW I never did hear what happened to them after the war) The news was full of TV pictures of Iraqi soldiers emerging from dug in positions with their hands on their heads. They had no idea of the kind of weaponry that we had. On a small island in the region, a tricycle was found which had a spear tied to it such that it pointed forward. Draw your own conclusions from that! Unfortunately for these gentlemen, the Americans had cluster bombs...

I always remember one pathetic scene in which a terrified young Iraqi soldier, on realising that the game was up, threw down any weapon he had, and in a flood of tears ran to an American serviceman, fell to his knees and kissed the American's boots. It was a moving scene, and one of those moments when one realised just what an amazinhunk Saddam is. He HAS to go.

I'm hoping there will be minimal loss of life on both sides. I still think that when the cards are all played and Baghdad is surrounded, it's possible Saddam could be taken out by his own people. We shall soon see.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2003, 05:10:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Not a green light for war, full stop. A green light for war if UN sanctioned.

muahahaha I think you are about to discover the gentle art of interpreting diplomatic documents.

What exactly does "last resort" mean and when does that happen?

"the UN inspectors must have the time the security counsel deems neccesary" how do you interpret that? What happens if the security counsel is divided...or blocked by veto?

You really are naive.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2003, 05:14:04 AM »
Oh...and where does it say the war has to be UN sanctioned?

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2003, 05:15:10 AM »
Eh? You're the one making over-simplified statements such as 'EU gives green light for war'. Are you a tabloid hack by any chance?

I'm saying it's not as simple as that; what happens at the UN will give us a definition of 'last resort'.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2003, 05:24:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
what happens at the UN will give us a definition of 'last resort'.

?

Offline Monk

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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2003, 05:26:32 AM »
Beet1e;
That's a good point, my  experience on the first day of the ground war, the first Iraqis that we met asked us, "Why did it take us so long?"
A group of about 15-20 soldiers, a bit of bread to eat , and next to no water huddled in a bunker with a couple AKs, nearly not enough to arm each man.

I wish some of the nay sayers could have witnessed this.

Offline Ping

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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2003, 05:51:40 AM »
From what I recall Beet1e, The coalition with the prisoners very best interests at heart sent the prisoners back to face trial for surrendering.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2003, 06:10:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ping
From what I recall Beet1e, The coalition with the prisoners very best interests at heart sent the prisoners back to face trial for surrendering.

So what?

Are you actually hinting that Iraq is a better place with Saddam?
He needs to go, the sooner the better. Period.

Offline Ping

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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2003, 06:21:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
So what?

 

What about the humanitarian angle Hortlund?
Is that how you would treat defectors? Consistancy is grand.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead