Author Topic: Why all the Spitty Whinning?  (Read 2397 times)

Offline Kweassa

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2003, 04:01:58 PM »
Frankly, the Spitfire is a superb plane.. and how gunnery and damage is dealt in AH, makes it even better(perhaps up to the point that it makes it even more successful than it was).

 Also, it's the ahistorical context of the MA which brings out much frustrations among people. You do a good fight, can't run away from a La-7s, so you dodge a bit and get low, and see zillions of Spitfires oggling around like maggots swarm to a dead flesh. Usually the La-7 stops someone from running away, and the Spits and N1Ks finish them off.. a peculiar combination of 'turn' planes and 'fast' planes which make people who choose to fly other planes frustrated.

 But in the historical context, I think it's more.. um.. 'relieving'. For instance, in CT arena, North African setups, the Fw190A-5 totally dominates the SpitV in a large scale, massive engagements. Also, the Bf109F-4 is outright a good match against the Mk.V, too.

 Another instance is the PAC setups, where USN planes fight against JP planes.. and frankly the N1K2 is no where near a threat as it is in MA, because no other plane can catch the faster USN fighters, and make them go low and slow for them.

 Thus, as long as it is the MA, the Spitfire is accepted as it is. A great, and perhaps the most successful plane to fly around.

 Mr. Reginald Mitchell made one helluva plane.. !

Offline Stickman

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2003, 08:52:06 PM »
"People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims. They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive. "


The problem, at least in all the flight sims I've ever been a part of, is that sims tend to model the good points of many of the most famous fighters (Spitfire, P51, 190, 109) but not so many of the bad points.

For example, the Spitfire, while unsurpassed as a close in scrapper, was unable to compete in a high speed energy fight with such as the 190A. It exhibited poor maneuverability at speeds in excess of 300 mph, was slow to accelerate, had a poor dive and zoom climb, and didn't have the top speed (except for the Mk XIV) to engage/disengage at will.

The "less able" Yank fighters, on the other hand, generally maneuvered quite nicely at high speed (the P51 and P38J-L both easily outrolled the 190 at top speeds), posessed dive (and level, in the case of the P38) acceleration and zoom climbs well surpassing that of the Spitfire, and were generally fast enough to close on, or get away from, a bandit.

In these flight sims (most of them anyway), the high speed maneuverability of the Spitfire (as well as the 109) is generally much better than in real life, and since it's somewhat difficult to model dive acceleration and zoom climb independant of horsepower/weight and rate of climb, we see Spitfires that outzoom/outdive a P38L. Unfortunately, since these shortcomings in real life aren't found in the sims, these real-life "tough customer" fighters become nearly unbeatable, and matchups that would've generally turned out in favor of the faster aircraft in real life end up going the other way in a sim.

Hope this helps.

Offline Puke

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2003, 11:57:52 PM »
I think Kweasa hit the nail on the head.

And I guess I'll chime in too and say that I think the Spitfire enhances any pilot's skills and is a tad easier to get kills in [edit.  in the MA environment] than just about any other aircraft.  And like wetrat touched on, that top speed is good for surviving and getting away from a bad situation (maybe, there's always a Spitfire around with altitude on you and he'll certainly be able to catch you), but it really doesn't help once engaged 1 v 1.  In this situation, it's how well an aircraft can accelerate that is a benefit (and thus, how well it can retain or regain E) and not top speed.  The Spitwad is great at this.  But all this is just my opinion, I haven't flown a Spitfire in the MA in ages though I don't think things have really changed.  I cannot fight a Spit 1 v 1 in my favorite rides and win, and that's why I have to snipe them when they aren't looking or gang up on them.  

Leviathan, did you marry a sister or a cousin?   ;)

Offline Sikboy

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2003, 10:30:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet
the problem comes when some guys let their heads get too big, they see spit and think spit=newbie, so they don't respect it. You don't respect any plane long enough it'll come back to bite you


Lol, that happened to me just last week (two weeks ago?) I flew low and fast past an enemy field to see who would give chase (I was in a Yak-9U) After a sector or so, all that was left was a single spit, everyone else broke off. I turned back, and attempted to engage, but every time I would get in close, he was  just out of reach. I was running low on fuel, so I... um... "extended" back to base. Turns out it was Rude in a spit V.

It was at that point that  I realized that up until the point of engagemen I had just assumed that whoever was in that plane was either new, or just not very good. I mean, it was a spitfire, who chased me out away from friendly cover. I mean, I figured it'd be an easy kill, like Levi or something.

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Offline slimm50

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2003, 10:40:42 AM »
I fly what I feel like flyin at th moment, and I don't give a flyin rat fu#ck what anybody thinks. I die equally well in all planes:D

Offline Squire

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2003, 12:22:43 PM »
As far as its performance in AH, there is no evidence that the Spitfire is modelled poorly. No more or less than any other ac in the sim.  

Spitfire had fine acceleration (esp the IX and XIV), it isnt modelled faster in AH than in real life (check the #s), SpitfireIX in AH does @405 tops, at the proper alt. All the other models check out too (Mk 1, V, XIV). It DOES stiffen up on the ailerons at high speed in AH, as does the 109 in AH, as far as climb goes, again, the #s match. It had no problem performing high speed dives (unlike the P-38).

The P51 and the P-38L DO roll faster at high speeds than the 109 in AH, so Im not sure what the complaint there is. They also roll faster than a Spitfire (any version).

There is no source anywhere that indicates a P-38L could out dive a SpitfireIX. SpitfireIX is not an A6M5, and it didnt require a dive brake to control a high speed dive, neither did the 109. It might have had a slight edge in the initial dive, but it could not sustain that without compressing.

As far as "disengaging at will" the P-38L could not do that vs any of the 190 series, or the 109G-6 or 109G-10. To do that requires a COMMANDING speed advantage, ie P-40E vs Fw 190, F4U vs A6M5. 414-425mph (P-38J-L) vs 410-440mph (Fw190 and 109G-10) does not do it, not even close. As far as out diving them, no, it could not.


Spitfire F. IX rate of climb, have a look at the link, it did 20,000 ft in 6.5 minutes, compared to 7 min listed for a P-38L that I can find.

http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html

Most of the poor traits are modelled in the AH fighter ac as well as the good traits.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2003, 12:37:24 PM by Squire »
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Offline gofaster

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2003, 12:39:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by akak
If you guys want to know what plane takes skill to fly, the only one in AH that does is the P-38L.  Everything else is just EZ-mode.


Ack-Ack


You're confusing 'work' with 'skill'.  Real pilots fly the 109F, where you have to get inside d150 just to hit anything, and then you have to be able to stay there in order to knock anything off your target.  And if you're really masochistic, fly the 109E in the MA.

But if you're REAAALLLLY good, you can try and bag a kill in the P-40B.

Offline NoBaddy

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2003, 12:51:32 PM »
This ain't rocket science. People whine/complain about dweeb planes because they need a 'crutch'. "It's not my fault I died...the other guy was flying a dweeb plane!!!". Yeah...right! Fly whatcha want and have fun. After all...that is the whole point :D.
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Offline Curval

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2003, 01:43:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
People have been whining about Spitfires since the dawn of online flight sims.  They just can't accept the fact that Supermarine built a better dogfighter than anything the Yanks or Krauts could conceive.


Yup,

Didn't Goering fly into a rage when one of his senior officers, when asked what he needed to win the Battle of Britain, replied "Spitfires"?
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline J_A_B

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2003, 03:08:24 PM »
"Didn't Goering fly into a rage when one of his senior officers, when asked what he needed to win the Battle of Britain, replied "Spitfires"?"


"Goering came out to our airfields in France.  He was mad at us fighter pilots, because we did not give sufficient defence to our bomber squadrons against British fighters.  When Herman Goering asked me what he could do about it, I replied....I want Spitfires for my wing!"

--Adolf Galland




J_A_B

Offline HFMudd

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2003, 03:24:43 PM »
Quote
"Goering came out to our airfields in France. He was mad at us fighter pilots, because we did not give sufficient defence to our bomber squadrons against British fighters. When Herman Goering asked me what he could do about it, I replied....I want Spitfires for my wing!"

I love out of context quotes...

Now quote the next paragraph from "The First and the Last"...  You know, the one where he says that this wasn't really to be taken seriously and that he felt the 109E was the superior plane.

What Galland really wanted in order to "win" were two things:
1) Drop tanks.
2) To be allowed to detach from the bomber formations.

Offline J_A_B

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2003, 04:43:50 PM »
I'm well aware Galland wasn't serious.  It's still funny though.

J_A_B

Offline fffreeze220

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2003, 05:18:10 PM »
I bet all Spit Pilots have a little box where they have to put quarters in.

U have been 109'ed !

GAME OVER  blink blink blink GAME OVER

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« Last Edit: March 01, 2003, 03:25:21 AM by fffreeze220 »
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Offline Saintaw

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2003, 02:35:04 AM »
lol

Spitdweebs :D
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Offline Nilsen

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Why all the Spitty Whinning?
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2003, 04:15:48 AM »
Dogfightin in a heavy P47 at treetop level....now that is a fun/frustrating challenge :)

In a BZ fight or high alt fights the lame7's and spits usualy takes a nap before my 47 is toasted, so they are not that uber. Make sure you have some alt/ E advantage at all times and NOBODY can run away from you :D

Use the planes strenghts and you get some decent kills in every ride, just dont get fooled to play on the enemys terms.